rail fines

[Old-CodJA]

i suspect after last night i am in the wrong here. however i didn't before then.

 

You were certainly wrong at the point that you refused your name and address

 

Had you encountered a Revenue Protection Inspector and that inspector suspected that you were intending to avoid a fare you could have found him writing up a report potentially for more serious action. In serious cases an offence contrary to Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889) might be alleged.

 

Having travelled without a ticket and having been asked to pay the appropriate fare, but having failed to do so, you are obliged to give your correct name & address in accordance with National Railway Byelaw 23 (2005) and also the Penalty Fares (Railways) Rules. Ultimately, if conviction of either of these charges (RoRA S5 or Byelaw 23) is reached, a hefty fine can be imposed by Magistrates

 

The Penalty Fares Appeals process allows for the argument that you say you had not avoided payment at the earliest opportunity to be investigated.

 

Unfortunately, being in a hurry isn't an acceptable reason for failing to comply with that legitimate request in relation to existing legislation and if you part with payment to any member of staff, always get a ticket, or penalty receipt. It is the only evidence that you have to confirm that you made that payment

 

Knowing which station you travelled from and what time of day isn't going to identify you by itself, but it would certainly help to ensure you get the most accurate replies

[Old-CodJA]

Most of those scenarios are a bit unrealistic.

 

At the end of the day you were permitted to travel without a ticket by an authorised person, despite you having the means and ability to pay, but that should have been the end of it when you got off the train at your stop.

 

Something doesn't quite add up here for me.

 

 

 

I agree, there are missing facts it seems and the most important is to know what station the OP travelled from and at what time of day.

 

 

Whilst it might be argued whether or not the response alleged to have been given by rail staff did actually constitute permission to board without a ticket, two important points follow

 

 

IF given, the authority to board without a ticket, this does not constitute authority to travel without paying and the traveller is required to pay the appropriate fare at the first opportunity. The company should be able to confirm whether or not an opportunity had been available before the OP met the inspector and the OP should have provided name & address details if asked to do so.

 

 

IF asked for a name and address for issue of a Penalty Fare Notice, it does not matter whether it is being fully paid at the time of issue or not. The rules specifically allow for that information to be recorded.

[Old-CodJA]

travel time was 3pm to 4pm. i've already said why i wasn't naming the station.

 

 

Unfortunately that means that entirely accurate responses that truly might help you are not possible because all stations do not have the same staffing/infrastructure levels

 

 

i presume legislation from 1889 would only relate to payment by cash rather than bank card.

 

 

Not entirely, it is the precedents set by various cases brought under that Act and appeals heard and judgments recorded throughout more than a century since that have tested the legislation and set guidelines for Courts that will be relevant. The Act only refers to 'pay, or paid his fare', it does not specify any method of payment

[Old-CodJA]

British rail?

 

 

Time traveller dx100uk

[Old-CodJA]

can you both confirm that you have never at any time worked for the railways or anyone connected with them in any way and do you have anything helpful or constructive to add to what has been posted?

 

many thanks,

 

andy

 

 

 

I can't speak for dx100uk and he is clearly articulate enough to do that for himself.

 

For me, yes, I have worked for railways and am connected with the industry and the revenue protection, administration & prosecution processes.

 

As for whether I have anything helpful or constructive to add to this thread, that would depend on exactly how the reader interprets and acts upon what might be written.

 

From my reading of this thread it appears to me that you have made up your mind about earlier contributions by several industry insiders and have decided on a firm course of action.

 

For that reason I shall not offer further comment on this thread but wish you good luck.

[Old-CodJA]

I did make clear I shall not comment on the specifics of this thread, but just for clarification, I will respond to direct and inaccurate comment.

 

i think there is little point continuing with the thread. the questions i have raised have not been answered here or by southeastern.

 

I think your point about discontinuing the thread is well made. I also think that this is more to do with your not liking the responses that have been given than any failure to address your queries.

 

even now the last three posts have simply been to support a regular poster rather than addressing the issues.

 

Whilst I and other posters are undoubtedly grateful for supportive comments, I do not come onto this site seeking support, but merely to offer informed practical suggestions wherever possible. I joined the industry in 1977 and have gathered some little knowledge along the way, which I am happy to share if it can be of benefit to others, however I will not bend the truth to provide what someone wants to hear.

 

i simply stated the final comments were nothing more than common trolling which i believe they were.

 

You are as entitled to your opinion as others are to theirs and I am to mine.

 

i hadn't read anyone's profile and neither of the two posters connected with the railways had declared that until i raised the question.

 

My connection to the rail industry revenue protection & prosecutions activities was openly posted with my profile in January 2009. We cannot force you to read or do any research, but neither did I seek to hide anything. 38 years since I joined the former BR and within my role I am very fortunate to have greater freedom & independence than pretty well anyone else that I know in this sector of the business. No-one pays me for, or tells me what to write on any forum and I come here of my own free will.