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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Up, up and away! Against the RBoS


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Yep, me too. I got the same letter today from Sandy Watt, re my LBA dated 6 Dec 06. Am concerned that this is part of the RBS' senior management directive to 'hold' all these cases, pending their taking a global policy view about what to do!

 

 

I think Sandy Watt has just been 'promoted' to this position- I've had 3 letters from her in the last week acknowledging all my correspondence and it seems everyone else has as well- she's either been brought in to come up with a solution or she's just having to wade through all the repsonses so that they can try and stem the flow.

 

Having logged my MCOL (woo-hoo!) they now have 28 days to log a reponse- my guess is, since the recent media, people will be swamping them with claims that aren't neccesarily correct- especially with the way RBoS hide a lot of their charges by lumping them in with (legit) Royalties charges.

 

If they don't get a defence in within 28 days- people can move for judgement and I guess this is happening before they've had a chance to check legitimacy.

 

Either way- I wouldn't want her job! What targets does she have to meet? Try and give away less than a million???

 

Has anyone spoken to her or got anything more detailed than the standard 'Thank you for your letter, please bear with us' response?

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Just faxed off the full list of charges including the 8% interest and tried to ring Sandy Watt to confirm receipt.

 

I got an answerphone message for the Cust Relation team saying, 'Sorry no-one is available to answer your call' blah blah blah.

 

But then it went on to say that if it was regarding charges we assure you we will be in touch by 31st January.

 

A few thought son this:

 

1)

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Just faxed off the full list of charges including the 8% interest and tried to ring Sandy Watt to confirm receipt.

 

I got an answerphone message for the Cust Relation team saying, 'Sorry no-one is available to answer your call' blah blah blah.

 

But then it went on to say that if it was regarding charges we assure you we will be in touch by 31st January.

 

The banks are obviously going to be trying to stop these claims going through- is this the deadline they've set themselves?

 

If so, what will the outcome be? A blanket 'Here's your money back' or a standard defence that they're going to start going to court with to get a test case through?

 

Am I being overly worried? Anybody with any further info?

 

My concern is that they need to lodge a response to my MCOL by the 28th- so I'm either going to get through just before or I might be the case they go to court with.

 

Sprint to the finish!

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I bet there are hundreds of people with LBAs expiring before the 31st.

 

Bet they've closed this phone off because they can't get any work done the amount of phonecalls they're getting :D

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Just read Chezts latest response to the letters we've all been receiving

 

Feel fine now

 

Just a momentary panic that it's going to come crashing around my ears!

 

They've got to the 28th to respond- which is a Sunday so really the 26th.

 

Do you literally just write to the court with your claim ref and ask for judgment?

 

It all seems so simple, almost too simple...

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Woo-Hoo!!!

 

Got home to find an offer for my full amount - but not including the Interest added since filing MCOL!

 

So just got to get that added but battle won!

 

One slightly amusing aspect of this- it's quite clearly a standard letter that they send (the 'Our charges are clearly laid out and we dont think they're wrong.' letter)

 

When it got to the part about the offer it reads:

 

However, having reviewed your case and as a gesture of goodwill and without admission of liability or error, in this instance we are prepared to offer the amount of £x [direct quote] paid direct to your account.

 

It wasn't till I got to the part that I need to return that an amount was actually put in!

 

Brilliant.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've replied to the offer with the standard, 'I will be pursuing the rest but please feel free to give me that for now'

 

I've had a letter to say that it isn't their policy to pay Interest and Court charges (I wish I could say the same to them!) but that the offer still stands.

 

They have filed an acknowledgment of my court claim and stated they will be filing a defence with Cobbetts solicitors. They've got another 2 weeks to file this defence.

 

Anyone got any experience of how long this part takes? Do RBoS generally file the defence and if so how long do they drag it out for before offering full settlement?

 

Thanks

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I could be wrong here - and I know someone else will spring to your aid if so - but what will your case be in court?? They have offered to give you all your money back. Surely there is no need to proceed to court in this case?

 

From what I have read on here you only get the 8% if it goes as far as the court and they have settled out of court, haven't they?

 

Can someone else let me know if this is true or not?

 

I have actually filed my claim asking for my money back plus contractual interest on it at their unauthorised rate. I fully expect them to refuse that and perhaps offer to pay without interest - or at 8% as they seem to have done a few times on here...

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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Hi Furzle,

 

From what I understand, Wardle had already filed with MCOL 2 weeks before the offer was made, so is not obliged to accept it, especially since additional costs have been incurred.

 

A wee update on our 2 cases. We've asked for interest on both claims before proceeding to court. Both of which we've asked for at the 29.85%. They settled my husbands (quite small) one fully after the second letter. They've offered me part, which we've refused, and we've made it more than clear that we are looking for the full amount plus compound contractual interest to stop us filing at court.

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Thanks ickle peach - I knew someone wuld be more on the ball than me!

 

That's v interesting too - hearing of others who have gone for contractual (compounded or otherwise). Mine is a relatively small claim going by some on here (may later go after older amounts as was a student over 6 years ago and that's when I rally suffered). However, adding the interest nearly doubles it so is well worth doing to atempt to redress some of the pain and financial stress this has cost over the years.

 

I left a job and house in 2001 because I couldn't pay transport costs to work or rent for 2 months due entirely to overdraft charges. I want it BACK.

 

Good luck with the rest of yours - I'll watch your progress.

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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Hi Furzle,

 

icklePeach is spot on- I'd filed the claim before they made an offer- this now puts them under the jurisdiction of the courts- whose rules are- you charge them 8% interest from the date that the cost was incurred. If it was to go to court and I was to win then the court would include this in the total amount owed.

 

Also- I had to pay £120 to log it with MCOL- this is the court costs that the losing side pays for.

 

(Have you seen those ads: 'Have you had an accident at work?...It wont cost you a penny'- they make their money by building up huge costs that the other side have to pay!)

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Well - since I'm pretty sure mine will go as far as court (because of asking for contractual interest) I'm quite pleased to hear that!

 

Another 8% on top will suit me fine. Drag it out as long as you want, bank. I've waited long enough - I can wait some more...

7-11-06 Requested statements from bank

11-11-06 Statements received

3-2-07 Finally send letter demanding repayment of £1,993.81

8-2-07 received first bog off letter - 'sorry to hear you are dissatisfied - passing you to customer services...'

21-3-07 letter ofering full refund of charges (£1037) less the contractual interest. As have NOT filed to court yet, am accepting payment of charges.

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I'm pretty sure you can't claim both.......either contractual or statuatory, not both.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure that's right.

If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know

 

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RBS CA1 £2794 SETTLED!!! RBS CA2 £503 SETTLED!!! HBOS CC £498 SETTLED!!! Barclaycard £705 (with CCI) ONGOING!!! NATWEST CA ONGOING!!! LLOYDS CA x 2, CC, LOAN ONGOING!!! HFC LOAN ONGOING!!!

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Guest willowb

No you can't. But you can have the two ready in your claim, i.e., claim for contractual interest but if it goes to Court and the Judge doesn't allow it then have a claim ready showing the 8%....ok?

 

Wxxx

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  • 2 weeks later...

Damn- they've lodged a defence!

 

I'm sure other people have the same letter- asking whether I think that I shouldn't have been charged and if not, how much should I have been charged.

 

Also asking me to be more spcific about the laws I'm claiming under.

 

I'm just about to go and check the FAQs for respnse to these but if anyone knows where they fell free to let me know!

 

Looks like this is going to drag out :o(

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Guest willowb

Wardle, if you don't mind me saying....you have been a member since July 2006....please read the threads here, you don't have to post but you should have been prepared for this.

 

Just keep reading, like we have all had to do, your understanding of RBS will be much clearer and you will gain confidence:) .

 

Wxxx

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Ummm... Thanks Willow.

 

I have been posting fairly solidly (granted not 1,500 like yourself) since I started my action against RBoS- keeping this log updated with what stage I'm at and adding to other logs. I have read and do read the FAQs quite a lot and did know that this was likely to happen. I just hoped that they would settle rather than fight it!

 

If you search for 'Cobbetts' there are a lot of threads and many of them give different avenues to respond to the defence logged. I've been trawling through them trying to find a definitive response (which is why I didn't type the whole letter in- it's been logged on this site many times)- which I'm then going to post a link to on this thread- I was merely asking if anyone else had done this already.

 

My last post is quite clear that I'm doing this for myself- not just posting the odd thread here and there expecting everyone to tell me exactly what to do.

 

If you read through the whole thread, hopefully this will be clear

 

For everyone who is in the same position- this is the best I've found so far. There's a post by Pezza01 on 7th December that gives a full letter to send:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/51279-cobbetts-defence.html

 

Thanks

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Wardle, there are 2 RBS cases going through from mods at the moment - mcuth and livelylad. They might be worth trying to find as I'd hazard a guess that they would probably be two of the better ones to follow I'd think. Along with them is HydraUK, his threads are pretty detailed.

 

 

Haven't reviewed them myself as I've never needed (all settled out of court)....

If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know

 

Always start with the User guide!

Stuck with RBS charges? Click here!!

 

RBS CA1 £2794 SETTLED!!! RBS CA2 £503 SETTLED!!! HBOS CC £498 SETTLED!!! Barclaycard £705 (with CCI) ONGOING!!! NATWEST CA ONGOING!!! LLOYDS CA x 2, CC, LOAN ONGOING!!! HFC LOAN ONGOING!!!

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  • 1 month later...

Been a while since I posted but quite a lot occurred!

 

I've had a reply from the court saying that there will be a mediation hearing in June to try and settle this- has anyone had similar?

 

I've decided, through one thing and another, to accept their offer of the full amount without interest as I'm in the process of moving house and finances are a bit thin.

 

Would I send the original offer acceptance letter back (Which I received just after logging on MCOL) or would I send this leeter / a different letter to the solicitors- Cobbetts and Co.

 

Do people think they would accept this? My guess is that they would as it's saved them about a grand and a drawn out legal case.

 

Is there any chqance that they wouldn't honour their offer from January???

 

I'd appreciate any commebnts from people who've done this as I don't want to mess up this far down the line!

 

Thanks

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I don't know what you should do there wardle, but don't do anything without some advice from the mods first!!

If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know

 

Always start with the User guide!

Stuck with RBS charges? Click here!!

 

RBS CA1 £2794 SETTLED!!! RBS CA2 £503 SETTLED!!! HBOS CC £498 SETTLED!!! Barclaycard £705 (with CCI) ONGOING!!! NATWEST CA ONGOING!!! LLOYDS CA x 2, CC, LOAN ONGOING!!! HFC LOAN ONGOING!!!

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