ntl-guy Vs. Halifax

[ntl-guy]

Took me a while, however, I've decided to finaly do something to recover the extortionate charges that have been levied aginst my 2 accounts over tha past 6 years.

 

My initial questions are:

 

1. Is it feasable to send my DPA request via email or does this have to be sent via snail-mail?

 

2. Can I include both accounts in the single action?

 

 

Any help would be greatly appriciated

 

Regards,

 

ntl-guy

[ntl-guy]

Update:

 

Decided to go ahead and send DPA via email, just got an automated reply thanking me for the email (lets see them say they haven't received it!) also printed 2 hard copies: one for my records, and the other to personaly hand into my branch on Tuesday morning. No going back now eh!

[jonni2bad]

There's no specific 'harm' in requesting them via email, but it has been noted that banks in general will not do as they say they will, so the snail mail version, backed up by recorded delivery, seems to prompt a better response.

 

Also, the clock only starts ticking when they receive their fee. So even if they suggest that they will do this for free, get the £10 fee off to them asap.

 

I sent a £10 postal order and have just had confirmation of copy statements being ordered (after 30 days waiting) plus a return of £5 by cheque.

 

Halifax tend to charge £5 for this service, but at least they can't argue that they were not supplied with the correct fee...

 

In short, DO NOT TRUST THEM!!

 

Follow the proceedure shown in the FAQs section, and you will find it hard to go wrong.

 

Good luck, and keep us up to date with your progress.

[ntl-guy]

well, handed in my DPA request to local branch this morning, paid fee and obtained a receipt, on arriving home, I had a message in my inbox stating that the email I sent to Customer Services had been read.

 

I was thinking of replying to this receipt sent from [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] and was wondering if the following would be ok to send:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Further to my email of 16/04/2006, I have now handed a hard copy of my DPA disclosure request into your Cosham branch and paid the £5 fee that was requested from the branch manager (Receipt number R*******), so there is now no need for you to deduct the disclosure request fee from roll number D/********- * on 01/05/2006 and authorisation to do this is now withdrawn.

 

May I take this opportunity to remind you that there is a 40 day time limit for you to furnish me with the requested details and the ‘Clock is Ticking,’ furthermore, failure to supply the requested details within the specified time period will result in a complaint to the Information Commissioner which in itself could reap severe penalties for HBOS PLC.

 

I look forward to your swift response and co-operation in this matter.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Mr ntl-guy ARCM LRAM FTCL.

_____________________________________________

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]

Sent: 18 April 2006 12:00

To: mr ntl-guy

Subject: Read: Data Protection Act disclosure request

Importance: High

 

Your message

 

To: $Customer Relations (Halifax); [email protected]

Subject: Data Protection Act disclosure request

Sent: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 02:23:27 +0100

 

was read on Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:59:32 +0100

 

--

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HBOS plc, Registered in Scotland No. SC218813. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. HBOS plc is a holding company, subsidiaries of which are authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.

==============================================================================

 

 

 

The idea behind sending this reply (and further emails EVERY day thereafter) is to try and provoke a swift response and show them that they're not dealing with a pushover! (or an Idiot)

 

Thanks in advance,

 

ntl-guy.

[jonni2bad]

In that case, how's about.....

 

"There is a 40 day time limit for you to supply the requested details but I would appreciate any assistance possible in resolving this matter sooner."

 

From personal experience with the Halifax, I doubt it will speed things up, but give it a go if you wish - you never know!

[ntl-guy]

Good point! the main reasons for the full-on approach were that in previous dealings when I've been 'mr nice guy personified' I've been S*** on from a great altitude, so I think the compromise would be to use your sugestion initially and revert to my original idea if i get ignored or fobbed off.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[ntl-guy]

Well, after reverting to my original idea and emailing a 'Halifax Distribution List' while also faxing 2 Senior Customer Relations Managers 3 times a day! lol - I've just had a phone call at 10.34am from Pam in the Cosham branch who informed me that my statements have been ordered and should be here in the next couple of days! Lets see what happens, I'll give em 2 days and start the emails/faxes again

 

p.s. emails/faxes contained the following:

 

Subject: Re: Data Protection Act Disclosure Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

ACCOUNT ROLL NUMBERS: D/********- * & D/********- *

 

 

Despite my emails/faxes being read by several of your customer relations staff, and not so much as an acknowledgement that the matter is being dealt with, I feel compelled to communicate with you again.

 

I handed a hard copy of my DPA disclosure request into your Cosham branch (18/04/2006) and paid the £5 fee that was requested from the branch manager who assured me it would be sent to Head Office immediately.

 

 

[Here I inserted a scan of my receipt for the DPA request]

 

May I take this opportunity to remind you that there is a 40 day time limit for you to furnish me with the requested details and the 'Clock is Ticking,' furthermore, failure to supply the requested details within the specified time period will result in a complaint to the Information Commissioner which in itself could reap severe penalties for HBOS PLC.

I look forward to your swift response and co-operation in this matter.

 

Kind regards,

 

ME.

 

 

Tel: ***********

Mbl: ***********

Fax: ***********

 

[Address]

 

 

I would also recommend using the email tracking service at http://www.readnotify.com/readnotify/

 

with this you can see when they've read your email, how long they read it for and if they have forwarded it onto anyone.

 

 

So, it would seem that the full-on approach has worked for me, but time will tell.

[ntl-guy]

Received a letter this morning in the standard format:

 

Telephone: 01383 426816 Fax: 01383 426836

Our Ref: KG

25th April 2006

 

Dear Mr ******,

I refer to previous correspondence concerning your request for a list of transactions and charges through your accounts for the period since April 2000. I have been advised by our Cosham branch that the order for duplicate statements has been raised and you should receive copy statements containing this information within the next few days.

Whilst I acknowledge it is your legal right to apply formally under the Data Protection Act for all the records we hold on you, your request is very specific. There is normally a £10 charge for a formal. request, however in the interests of customer service I have provided a list of your bank charges for the last six years free of charge.

I understand that you would like to receive information about specific transactions. We are under no statutory obligation to record the information you require and thus are unable to comply with your request. .

There is a charge of £5 for duplicate statements which you have already paid to Cosham branch however, in the interest of customer service, I have arranged for production of the statements to you for no fee and your account has been re-credited with the £5 which you have already paid.

I hope this information is sufficient for your needs.

Kenneth Graham

Senior Customer Relations Manager Enc

 

Half the charges are missing from the list that was enclosed, what would be the best way to respond to this?

All suggestions appreciated!

[ntl-guy]

Help PLEASE someone:confused:

[jonni2bad]

Just expand on the missing charges for me - are you talking about missing statements, or that statements do not show charges you know were once there?

[ntl-guy]

The information they sent had blocks of months missing where I know for a fact I incurred rather hefty charges.

 

However, I received a full set of statements for the 1st account this morning, wondering where the second set were, I decided to phone my local branch. I had a very polite and helpfull conversation with the assistant manager.

 

I thanked her for the refund of the £5 fee I paid and explained that I had only received the statements for account 1 mentioned in the DPA letter & was wondering if there had been a slight oversight on their part when statements were ordered, she assured me that no oversight had taken place and that they actually use 2 systems, so infact, both sets of statements had been ordered twice, and account 2 should be with me within a couple of days.

 

So I'm going to be busy with the highlighter pen and excell today working out how much they've taken me for, and await the arrival of the second set of statements.

 

The point remaining still is the matter of manual intervention mentioned in my above post, have emailed Customer Relations on this and faxed Kenneth Graham, but hey presto.......diddly squat:mad: (surprise surprise)

 

So what would be the best way of dealing with the manual intervention thing?:?

 

Thanks,

 

Tony.

[ntl-guy]

Well, totted up £801.90 on account 1 and was wondering if the following would be ok to send via fax immediately or should I wait for the statements for account 2? :?

 

Mr ntl-guy ARCM LRAM FTCL

[my address]

 

 

Tel: ***********

Mbl: ***********

Fax: ***********

 

Halifax PLC

10 High Street

Cosham

Portsmouth

PO6 3BZ

 

cc. Customer Relations via email

 

Thursday, 27 April 2006

 

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT ROLL NUMBERS: D/********* & D/*********

 

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my accounts over the last 6 years

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations. If you say that they are not then you will pleased to demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

You concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £801.90 inclusive of unauthorised overdraft interest resulting from these unlawful charges for the sum which you have taken from roll number *********. In respect of roll number ********* you have still failed to fulfil your obligations under the Data Protection Act disclosure request I made, so I am forced to make an estimate of actual charges levied upon my account where I would expect to recover no more than £900.00. Total = £1701.90 Plus Interest at 8% per annum.

Additionally you may have entered a default notice against my credit record. The resulting default would occur merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or would be the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above I require that you remove any default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to any entry that you may have made will not be acceptable.

 

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting unconditionally my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond or you do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

Mr ntl-guy ARCM LRAM FTCL

 

 

 

also don't know what to do about the manual intervention thing:-?

 

Thanks.

[jonni2bad]

3 points.....

 

1) Manual intervention - If they don't respond to your query, then it is taken to mean they don't have any evidence of it, so that's now resolved...

 

2) DO NOT fax this request, and certainly not yet. Wait until you know how much your are claiming for both accounts, then POST the letter to them.

 

3) There is no point 3

 

Cheers

John

[ntl-guy]

Noted:wink: I thought that sending via fax & email would be a lot quicker in getting the ball rolling as they are both seen as acceptable forms of communication, I would also have delivery receipts for both if they were sent that way. Thanks for your help:D

[ntl-guy]

Well, finally my second lot of statements came through today, totted all the charges up and they came to £1446.55

 

so sent em a letter asking for it back:) 14 day's & counting. Lets see how long it takes em to respond.

[jonni2bad]

Good work.

[ntl-guy]

Surprise surprise, received a letter saying "we're gonna take you for another £39 quid cause we couldn't be bothered to let your account go overdrawn by £2":-x

 

I remember reading a reply someone sent in the same situation but can't seem to find it:|

 

any advice would be appreciated:)

[jonni2bad]

I wouldn't have thought it worthwhile to challenge this separately, just wait until you move to the LBA and add on the new charge(s) as you go. You can do so again, before you issue the court papers, if required.

 

I think I have seen others send letters in to the bank and explain that if these new charges are not withdrawn, they will be claimed back as part of an ongoing claim, but not sure how responsive banks have been to that.

[ntl-guy]

Thanks jonni

[ntl-guy]

Just received a letter from Helen Kirwin, standard reply buy the look of it "you will receive a reply shortly but certainly no later than 4 weeks" cheek of it! along with a complaints leaflet "how we'll handle your complaint" blah blah blah

 

Thinking of sending them a nice gentle reminder email telling them that it is I who is setting the timescale and they've got 8 days remaining in which to provide a satisfactory response/full refund or I'll be sending them a LBA

[ntl-guy]

Just had a conditional offer of £110 (pah) from Damian Robertshaw, Drafted the following reply and wondered what other people thought before it gets sent:

 

 

Dear Mr Robertshaw,

I find it somewhat bemusing the you have again unlawfully taken the sum of £39 from my account on the 4th May, this now brings the total I am pursuing to £1485.55.

With regards to your offer of settlement in the sum of £110.00 I would respectfully refer you to the reply in the case of Arkell v Pressdram.

I would further like to remind you that you have 4 day’s remaining in which to either reply with a satisfactory response / payment in full, before I will issue you with a Letter Before Action.

I look forward to your swift response and co-operation in this matter.

 

Kind regards,

 

Mr ntl-guy

[ntl-guy]

Guess what, I sent the above via email and now they've upped the offer to £367 being 6 months charges etc etc.

 

gonna reply back explaining that we're not playing deal or no deal here and that the clock is still ticking etc.

 

wonder what other people think?????

 

 

ntl-guy.

[ntl-guy]

Well, spoke to Mr Robertshaw, and explained that this was completely unacceptable etc. etc. (in the nicest possible way ) and then got the following reply:

 

Dear Mr ME,

 

If you are not prepared to accept our final offer, then it is apparent that we are unable to negotiate an amicable settlement to your complaint. Once again I would reiterate, we will not refund all of the charges and our offer is purely made as a gesture of goodwill to resolve your complaint. Furthermore, any further charges you incur in the future will stand.

 

Under the circumstances, I will issue a letter to you giving referral rights so if you wish, you can now take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. This letter is the company's final response to your complaint. I realise this may not be the route you wish to take, and may choose to issue a County Court claim against us instead, that of course is a matter for you to decide on.

 

I trust this has clarified our position.

 

Kind regards.

 

 

 

 

Now, the question is this: Do I just let time run it's course or does someone have a great answer that I can reply with?

 

Bearing in mind that I'm due to send an LBA in 4 day's.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

ntl-guy.

[mrflib]

I would aknowledge his letter and respond by saying you will be taking them to court in X days as stated in your LBA. Give them some time to reconsider, although I doubt they will.

 

It seems you will only get all your money back after you file your claim. Maybe you can state you know Halifax will pay when you do this, so offer them to chance to save themselves money, and your time. Then again, taking them to court sounds more fun!

 

Good luck to you

[ntl-guy]

Thanks for that, just sent em the following:

 

Monday, 08 May 2006

 

Dear Mr Robertshaw & all other recipients of this communication,

 

It is now clear to me that this matter is not being dealt with seriously, so let me clarify MY position:

 

1.You have unlawfully taken the sum of £1485.55 from my accounts.

2.You have consistently avoided the issue with customer relations staff regularly deleting communications from myself.

3.You have failed in your responsibilities as my fiduciary.

4.You have still failed to comply fully with my Data Protection Act disclosure request.

 

I have fully documented proof of the above four points.

 

I will certainly be making a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service in addition to my complaint to the Information Commissioner.

 

Meanwhile, you have until Friday 12th May to give me a satisfactory response or issue a FULL refund before I issue a Letter Before Action.

 

Please let me clarify just one more thing, if the situation does not get resolved amicably and does get to the stage where a county court claim is issued, I will also be adding court costs of £120 and interest at 8% APR.

 

I hope this clarifies MY position.

 

I look forward to your swift response and co-operation in this matter instead of ignoring the issue just like so many of your colleagues.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

 

 

 

 

So let's see what happens now!