OVERPAYMENT of RENT for YEARS! Now What?

[Andy_J7]

 

 

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum/Site so first a big hello to everyone. I've been reading the site for a while and it has tons of valuable information for consumers etc so I decided to join up so I could ask a question of my own. Hope I put it in an easy to understand, accurate way and I will try and keep it as short as I possibly can. Thanks!

 

P.S. Sorry if some icons look odd but I typed this in MS Word first and just Copy/Pasted it here.

 

I moved into my flat on May 5th 2003 and I still currently live in it, so I have now lived there for approx 10 Years and 2 Months. It is a privately owned flat and I have a Landlady owner. I have been on Incapacity Benefit for many years and with the changes made recently I am now on ESA, (Employment and Support Allowance). My rent has only increased once in all those years. Briefly, the reasons are that although the flat is fine to live in, it is a very old building and though what you may term "modernized", it's nothing very special either as the work carried out was not to a very high standard therefore the once only increase in rent over the years and the rent itself is actually very cheap by today's/other local flats pricing. I believe that nobody in work would spend their hard earned money renting the place if the rent was, for e.g. £100 per week or more, when they could get a far more modern, far nicer etc flat nearby for that kind of money. (This is just my opinion of course).

 

 

Anyway, I'm just outlining the situation for you with that info. Now to the main question.

 

 

As someone on IB/ESA, I of course have Council Tax and Housing Benefit. This varies very slightly but on the whole remains roughly the same per month. However, for the majority of these last 10 years+, I have had to pay the Landlady a set amount myself because I could not receive full housing benefit due to my IB/ESA being too high. Both myself and my Landlady were aware of this and so during the first week I moved in (May 5th 2003), I was "summoned" down to my Landlady's house to work out the rent and to find out what my contribution would be.

 

Two of her children (Adults of course), always advise and help her out with financial matters, although she herself is well capable when it comes to money etc lol. Anyway, after pleasantries, she told me that she herself, her Son and Daughter had looked at all the figures, the benefit and what she wanted in Gross Rent. They informed me that they had come up with a shortfall of £9.41 per week. I had a quick look and generally took them at their word (I have known them since I was a boy and I'm 48 now) and agreed that I would pay what they had suggested.

 

I told them I would setup a Standing Order at my Bank directly to her account which I did that very day. It was for £9.41 and was to be paid from that Monday (6th May 2003) and every Monday thereafter until cancelled by myself or the Landlady. I was also given a Contract drawn up by Solicitor for I think 5 years (I haven't had one since by the way?). All went as expected over the years and the SO kept being paid every Monday as usual. Then on April 1st 2006 she told me that she had to increase the rent as there had been no increase at all since my tenancy began and everything has gone up etc (She moans a LOT over anything to do with money of course lol).

 

Well I just said okay I guess and she told me that I would probably have to adjust my SO with the bank and that she would let me know by how much. Well, as you will know, I had to inform my local council Benefit section about the increase and they eventually informed me by letter that I was still on maximum benefit and if there was any extra rent needed to pay it was between me and my Landlady.

 

No problem I thought, as I could see it wouldn't be very much anyway. I never heard from her and I never increased the Standing Order of course! Although I found that slightly odd, I didn't question it any further and my SO and life in general continued merrily on. Then something changed! Pure accident that I found out about it! As I said, my benefit changed from Incapacity Benefit to ESA and the ESA I was receiving was "Income Based" ESA. After 1 year on this, it of course runs out and you are then put on "Non income based ESA".

 

From May 27th 2013 I was told that my ESA would now be approximately £10 per week less as I no longer had my contribution based ESA which gave me that extra tenner per week. I phoned my local council benefit dept, who were of course already informed by the DWP of my ESA changes.

 

(They always seem to be even though they always tell you that YOU must report all such changes lol). Anyway, they confirmed that they were aware of my drop in benefit so I happened to mention that I also contributed to my own weekly rent via SO. They then told me that from May 27th 2013 I shouldn't be paying her ANY rent at all as I was now in a lower income bracket I was now entitled to FULL 100% housing benefit and that's what the council were now paying directly into my Landlady's bank account every month. I had already paid TWO payments of £9.41 (£18.82) by this time and my Landlady had said NOTHING about it, even though ALL rental changes made by the council are sent TO HER as well as myself!!

 

 

The very helpful lady at the council told me that although she and the council were not in a position to legally or otherwise get involved in any dispute/issues between Landlord/Tenant "Rent shortfall payments", if it was me personally in that position, she said, I would cancel that Standing Order immediately and explain everything you've just told me to your Landlady and ask for your money to be returned to you.

 

Well, to be honest with you, I wouldn't be here posting this very long post on this forum for the sake of £18.82 and if she refused to give it back I would probably not take it any further. BUT, and it's a HUGE but! While on the phone with helpful council lady, I happened to ask if I had been paying the correct amount of rent to my Landlady for ALL of THE 10 YEAR TENNANCY? So she looked back on the figures over the years and I confirmed to her my SO had always been for £9.41 per week, it still was, and had never been changed.

 

She said from what I can see by the Gross rent, the benefit we have been paying for you, and YOUR contribution of £9.41, the TRUE approx amount you should have been paying the Landlady was approx £6.18 per week, with some weeks, due to slight fluctuations in benefit etc, a maximum of £6.83 per week, but the main amount over the years is £6.18 as she has only increased the rent ONCE over all those 10+ years!!!! Well, I couldn't believe what she was telling me although I had a sneaking suspicion many times over the years I never bothered doing anything about it......Until that benefit change on the 27th May this year!

 

I then asked if the council would be willing to send me printed out copies on official council paper of the GROSS RENT and ALL BENEFIT paid on my behalf directly to my Landlady from 5th May 2003 (Moving in date) to the present day/year and they said yes, no problem at all.

 

I have since had the paperwork back from the council, (Only yesterday) and although I haven't looked closely at it yet, it would appear that I have paid VASTLY too much rent over these 10+ years that I never needed to pay!!!!! We could be talking about an overpayment into her bank account by that Standing Order of I would say between £1,500 - £1,600 if my initial quick workings out are correct!!

 

Now, I'm not for one moment suggesting that my Landlady, her accountant and her children who advise her were aware of all this all these years, nor am I accusing them of any deceit, fraudulent behaviour, dishonesty or anything else, (at least not yet lol). So you know what I'm going to ask advice for now don't you?

 

Can I claim back ALL that money she OWES me, how do I go about attempting it, Where do I stand from a legal point of view as in, is it TOO LATE to make such a claim etc? Obviously I would be looking to claim back EVERY PENNY I ever overpaid whether she was aware about it or not as it was MY MONEY and should never have been paid into her account from that first date all those years ago (May 5th 2003).

 

 

I should say that I did phone her straight after speaking to the lady at the council (this was at least 2 weeks ago) and I told her that the council were now paying FULL housing benefit and that I no longer had to contribute ANYTHING to the rent myself and I would be cancelling the Standing Order that very day.

 

She didn't like it of course and mumbled on about the usual stuff about how she hadn't increased the already low rent over the years by much (No work of any kind carried out in 10 years either mind), how much it cost her every year to maintain the Gas Boiler/System and the building insurance and other Landlords charging a lot more for their properties BLAH BLAH BLAH!!

 

(I get this every time I talk to her as she is incredibly tight when it comes to money ). I told her that I had already paid 2 x £9.41 that I now didn't have to yet there was no mention of giving it back either! (I haven't told her yet that I know that I have been paying too much rent for 10+ years as well lol). She finished the conversation by saying I will have to sit down with my daughter and we will have to through it all and see what's what.

 

That was almost 3 weeks ago and I have heard nothing from her since! I am wondering have they looked at the figures, come to the same conclusions as me and realised that they made a MASSIVE blunder all those years ago, seen the amounts involved that I have overpaid and realised I am now VERY AWARE of it myself and decided to keep quiet about it and "hope it goes away?" lol.

 

Well, it isn't going to go away and I don't care if they give my 2 months (or whatever the law says) notice on the place to end the tenancy for having the "cheek/nerve" to try and claim back MY OWN MONEY, I will be going ahead anyway as long as I am advised that I WILL somehow get it ALL, or at least a large amount of it back!

 

 

I am so sorry this post is so long and you deserve a medal more that Andy Murray if you got this far lol, but I have to be clear from a legal standpoint of where I am and where I go next with this. Do I now have to work out exactly what amount I have overpaid, detail it carefully and clearly for the Landlady and her accountant/Children to go through and then send it by recorded delivery by letter to her address?

 

Or if she disputes it, flat out denies it or simply says I will not pay it back (I suspect this may be what she will do obviously), where do go from there? Small Claims Court? Citizens Advice Bureau? Solicitors? Obviously I can't do anything that would end up costing me money up front (Solicitors) as I am skint lol.

 

 

So, OVER TO YOU on this great forum and I hope a Rent/Benefit expert is around here somewhere or someone who's been through a similar situation can offer me some good advice/help me out on where I go from here. Many, Many Thanks and again I apologise for the very long post but I feel it's better you get as much of the story as possible!

 

Regards,

 

Andy

Edited July 9, 2013 by citizenB
formatting

[citizenB]

Ooh, ouch.. I will reformat your post to make it more reader friendly, but if you make more posts can you please shove some space in between your paragraphs !

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hello Andy, welcome to CAG,

 

I would not be surprised if the 'family' were fully aware of this over payment.

Personally I would recommend a formal request for repayment in full and/or

an arrangement by which you pay no further rent until the overpayment is

repaid or a reduced rent agreed.

 

This will need to be formalised and signatures independently witnessed.

[Andy_J7]

Hi again,

 

Sorry for the lack of paragraphs as I'm sure they were there when I pasted it from Word? When you say a "Formal" request to have all my money returned to me, do you mean by letter by post or hand delivered with all the details I have mentioned, or over the phone? Also, I couldn't have it repaid by simply NOT paying any rent as I said in the post I no longer have to pay ANY rent at all due to now being entitled to FULL Housing Benefit.

 

I doubt whether this situation will change much in the near future, though I am waiting for a reply to my ESA50 from ATOS Medical

 

Even if I were still paying a small amount of rent and withheld it, it would take YEARS to pay it back at that rate and obviously as it's MY MONEY paid over by mistake (Or whatever), I would be seeking to recover ALL OF IT in one foul swoop (Cheque would do it lol). No mention yet of anyone saying "10 years is too late" to make such a claim etc so that's good news so far. Thanks for the answers and hope I get a few more yet

 

Regards,

 

Andy

[Conniff]

In simple terms, barring comes 6 years after you realise the error.