work programme after 2 years

[JustInterested]

the Jobseekers Agreement was changed to allow for the 'Commitments Booklet' (SEE a few pages back for the pictures!

 

You shouldn't have been given any booklet to fill in:

 

There are no forms or questionnaires that Work Programme completers will be asked to complete by Jobcentre Plus staff. Therefore a benefit sanction could not be imposed in this respect.

This is from a FOI response from the DWP (sorry I can't post the link I don't have enough posts yet).

[JustInterested]

but I have yet to find a job to ring about (unless they want me to just ring up random companies to see if jobs are available ) which would annoy places that are not looking for workers if we all rang up each week

 

It certainly does annoy employers but that is exactly what the Jobcentre expect you to do!

[JustInterested]

oh Alfie, my advisor immediately said without any provocation from me or any form for that matter, for example history, "I can if I want too, have you come down here everyday"!

 

Which is just purely malicious; 1. I live miles away from the Jobcentre, I live in an area with poor transportation which I cant afford anyway, so walk the 4miles to get to the Jobcentre.

 

2. What possible rational reason is there to have someone come in everyday, what would be the point other than malice!?

 

Dom86, if you are attending the Jobcentre on a day that is not your normal signing day you can claim all reasonable transport costs. And the nasty comment your adviser said to you is why you should record every meeting you have with the Jobcentre staff.

 

The reason they want you in every day is because it wears you down and they hope that will make you sign off benefits. But it also stops those skivers who are actually working cash in hand, but not telling the Jobcentre about it, from continuing to do so.

[JustInterested]

Travelling to the Jobcentre everyday though would be a timely ordeal too, and would cut time for more productive things during that time, job searching, study, etc.

 

Everything you do has to be reasonable in your circumstances and cutting hours from your daily job search by having to waste it on travel time clearly isn't. Tell them that.

[JustInterested]

Bera with me while I post a couple of pointless threads so that i can post links.

[JustInterested]

Next one I will be able to post links...I hope.

[JustInterested]

If you leave out the 'www.' bit you should be able to put the link up as ordinary text and we can add it in ourselves. This is a very useful bit of information which we can use against the JC if they ask us to fill in forms.

 

OK: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/165970/response/403624/attach/html/3/Response%202830.pdf.html

[JustInterested]

Indeed it is about helping, which is why those seeking help and advice should make the effort to convey their queries in a medium which can be easily understood by all.

 

So no mime then?

[JustInterested]

Hey guys/gals as I have posted before I am now back at the JCP have had to register on Universal Job match as part of my new JSA agreement, I didn't tick the box to let them view my activity (although I have done all the job search requirements they have asked of me) at my last signing (yesterday) they tried to check my activity and as it was set to private I was told that they couldn't check that I had done what they asked of me and that by next time I sign on I should tick the box that allows them to view, now I know everyone's reasons why to not tick the box and I don't really want to let them spy on me all the time what I am wondering today is could I tick the box the morning I sign on so they can see I have done what I needed to do then un tick when I return home so they can't keep check or once you tick box does it disappear and you can't change it???? Thank you in advance for any replies

 

Why bother with that just quote their own regulations to them: "82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this – it is not therefore possible to require JSA claimants to give DWP access to their Universal Jobmatch account."

 

From: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/165908/response/410266/attach/html/5/Chapter%2003%20Using%20Universal%20Jobmatch.pdf.html

[JustInterested]

Thanks for posting the copy. Interesting format - and some of the information required (such as email address on page 2 for UJM) is likely to be in conflict with Data Protection Legislation.

 

However, can you rescan the document, and post an enlarged copy. Unfortunately, some of the text is indistinct.

 

Thanks

 

I can't read the form at all but you certainly do not have to give them your email address. This FOI response from the DWP also makes it clear that there should be no forms to fill in: "There are no forms or questionnaires that Work Programme completers will be asked to complete by Jobcentre Plus staff."

 

From: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/165970/response/403624/attach/html/3/Response%202830.pdf.html

[JustInterested]

It's interesting that the DWP claim in the FOI that returners won't be asked to complete any forms then I get sent a form to complete!

 

This is just the usual disconnect between the people who make the rules (the DWP) and the people who implement them (the Jobcentre managers). Some people were being made to fill in a booklet from the discredited nudge unit!

 

By the way the two jpgs show as blank pages on my computer and the original version was tiny and I couldn't zoom into it! Must be a peculiarity with my computer.

[JustInterested]

Depending on the candidate, potential options to minimise the risk of being conscripted would be i) to contact a local FE College to assess part time education - some courses are free, ii) explore distance learning options related to your job/career interests, iii) explore Self Employment (and identify local courses).

 

I tried that today at the Jobcentre. I strolled in with my 3 month part time course details and asked if I could do it. I was told I wouldn't be able to arrange it until I'd officially finished the WP (fair enough), so I'd have to discuss it with my PWPS adviser! Darn it, I just know they're going to refuse as that would give me an opt out of MWA.

[JustInterested]

I still think the prize for 'Most Ridiculous DWP Question' is the one on your initial benefit application form asking you about your savings, etc, where they ask if you have any cash lying around at home.. I defy anyone to answer that one truthfully!

 

It does make you wonder what goes through the heads of the DWP bean counters doesn't it? How exactly do they imagine they would ever find out if you did have some cash at home if you denied it on the form? In a world of their own.

[JustInterested]

Thanks for the info - I'm not sure I want to **** them off so they treat me like a 'special case' for special attention as that might work against me !

 

Going in every day for two weeks! You already are a special case.

 

It will be a mistake for you to sign up to UJM as once you've done it that's it, there's no going back.

 

The Jobcentre cannot mandate you to give them your CV, telephone number or, importantly, your email address. And, as the Government Gateway and UJM both require an email for registration, they can't force you to register.

[JustInterested]

I think that is croydon standard procedure - I live up the road so it's bearable for 2 weeks - just.

 

This states you Have to sign up to UJM & create a profile and public CV - Am I Wrong ?

 

"51. Where you have explained the benefits to claimants of creating a profile

and public CV in Universal Jobmatch and they will not do so willingly, they

can be mandated to create a profile and public CV. "

 

Iwill not give them the email I used for this though and make my cv without personal details and print out jobs I've applied for.

 

This is policy, it is not backed up by ANY legislation. Note that they do not say you WILL be made to register because they know the legislation is not in place to do that (if you doubt this ask yourself why there is a tick box on the JSAg to agree to register with UJM and not a straight statement that you WILL register with UJM!). It's a game of chicken where the first one to give loses.

 

Here's the only legislation that supports the creation of an "online profile":

 

The Welfare Reform Act 2012, chapter 2, section 17(3)© states:

 

(3) Action which may be specified under subsection (1)(b) includes in particular—

creating and maintaining an online profile.

 

Now you'll note that there is absolutely no mention of UJ. So, if you have an "online profile" with any other job search website you have met the legal requirements of the Act. This is one of the reasons I have given to successfully avoid being mandated to register with UJ.

 

However, while it is true that you cannot be made to give your email address, using that as a reason for not registering with UJM is, as far as I know, untested in practise. Logic dictates though that if you cannot be mandated to give your email and you cannot register with UJM without giving your email, then you cannot be mandated to register with UJM!

 

Everything you are asked to do by the Jobcentre has to be reasonable in your circumstances. If you argue that UJM does not in any way improve your chances of finding work compared to that which you already do it is unreasonable and they cannot mandate you to register with it.

Edited August 21, 2013 by JustInterested

[JustInterested]

Daily signing esp. at random times seems to be petty and vindictive and very if little to do with offering genuine help.

 

It has three main designs.

 

First, it prevents people they think are working and claiming benefit from working and second, it wears the jobseeker down in the hope they will sign off benefits and third, it increases the chances of them sanctioning you for being late or failing to do some required task. In other words it is IDS' dream.

 

None of it is designed to help jobseekers into work.

Edited August 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[JustInterested]

They are now looking at putting me on a 13 week "Idiot" 9-5 full time course in the jobcentre

 

Wow! That is brutal! I think that's the worst punishment I've seen so far from any Jobcentre. Do you have any more details of the "course"? Do you actually mean it will be run at the Jobcentre?

[JustInterested]

As I said before - IT is NOT a Punishment

 

3 months of a full time course that will be more of the usual nonsense they try to peddle as help - by any definition that is a punishment. You have to understand that everything they do is designed to wear you down and get you to sign off benefits!

[JustInterested]

This should interest a few people:

 

A3. Claimants will not be mandated to use IADs available in Jobcentre Plus offices and

will, therefore, not be sanctioned if they refuse to use them. Use of IADs by claimants is

voluntary.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/173127/response/422728/attach/html/3/FOI3884%20Gazz%20WDTK%20Reply.pdf.html

[JustInterested]

Lorise if you want to record your interviews you have that right but they must provide a private room for you to do it in so that you don't record other jobseeker's private information. You'll find they are far less bossy and give far less BS when they are being recorded!

 

And you don't have to apply for any job under 24 hours:

 

34424 of the DM guide - sanctions (http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch34.pdf)

...if a claimant refuses or fails to apply for or accept employment that is for less than 24 hours a

week, the claimant will have good cause.

 

So they can't sanction you for not accepting a job under 24 hours, assuming you have not restricted your hours of availability below 40.

[JustInterested]

Just noticed this FOI response regarding the need for the JC to retain your jobsearch evidence so I thought I'd post it here. A little bit more knowledge and power for us.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/can_jobcentre_plus_keep_a_copy_o

 

Apparently the JC can retain our jobsearch evidence if they have a 'business need'

 

That may be so but it doesn't change the fact that you are perfectly entitled to give your job search evidence orally. So they can retain whatever they personally write down from what you tell them but you don't have to give them anything in writing!

[JustInterested]

JCP will face a few difficulties if job seekers have to spend up to seven hours per day there, they don't have public toilets for a start.

 

They won't have to because it will be farmed out to private companies such as A4E, G4S, serco etc.

[JustInterested]

They want me to do voluntary work now. Can I opt out of that?

 

This should answer that question alfie:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/175319/response/436445/attach/html/3/WDTK%204236%20Davies.pdf.html

[JustInterested]

Is this from the jobcentre? Did they give you a choice? Do you know much about the company contacting you?

 

The jobcentre refers you to the MWA provider and then the rest is up to the provider. You are given no choice in what they put you on. The providers are pretty much the same as the WP providers and the call will have been from one of those.

[JustInterested]

Thank you for your help and advice,

I was just unsure why they needed it as the module I am doing is to learn how to fill in job applications

 

Presumably it'll be filling in job apps on UJM. If you want the path of least resistance all you have to do is make a new UJM account with a throw-away email address and use that account just for this course.