Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[**Margaret**]

Thanks for the invite Nolegion. Very happy to accept.

 

So mad with Atos they've driven me to computer literacy .

Been reading CAG for years but have only just learnt how to join in.

 

Long story short, a friend's still trying to recover from an unfit for purpose

incap farce sixteen months ago. Was intending to take notes (had to wave

handbook at them) but couldn't cope with friend's distress and notes at same

time. Audio record would have avoided the expense and wait, thirteeen months

and counting, for tribunal.

 

My story; I'm in the middle of reassessment for employment and support.

Trying to avoid getting shafted again, so I'll be as assertive as possible for audio

recording. With a notetaker as plan B!!!

 

What is their problem? Oh yes, they lost even a semblance of integrity:doh:.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Nolegion: Thanks for welcome.

 

Simon: In my experience a new appointment from Atos cancels the previous one, so don't hold your breath for a separate letter. Will next appointment offered be with recording facilities? How long's that bit of string?

 

Could rant for ever about Atos recording, or more to the point, not recording!

At our last encounter, recording would've exposed a nurse's ignorance of basic anatomy, and avoided the angst of a tribunal. Can't be having that now can we?

 

Tis my duty of care to myself, my family (and the taxpayer) to get my interrogation recorded.

 

Best wishes to everyone caught up in this fracas, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

worried 33: An incredibly small world! A rare outing this afternoon was to post a

letter to Atos at Nottingham asking for a recorded interrogation!!

 

nolegion: 'I will never forgive DWATO'. So , know exactly how you feel.

Think I do anyway, they've wrecked my friend's life.

 

Anyone else who's listening, reading or still standing:

 

Yep, push has come to shove with Mr Grayling et al.

Too tired for anything else tonight but tomorrow's another day.

 

Time to:sleep::sleep:, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

During last ten days:

 

We gave up on the 'most unfit for purpose form ever'!! Submitted a statement instead. Took us a week to write but it was an easier option for us and it was accepted by Atos. Maybe an idea for others who can't cope with the tick box format.

 

Spent a day on a written request for audio recording of my interrogation.

 

Spent the next day taking it to the post office for recorded delivery, so Atos can't deny receipt.

 

Spent yesterday preparing a short, but to the point, request to Grayling et al for clarification as 'to record or not to record', with some help from the 'press release'.

Many thanks, although flipping between the threads was tiring.

 

Spent today fuming about info in the posts above. Seems they're very serious about 'not to record' interrogations. Won't stop me asking though, especially after Thursday's parliamentary written answer.

 

Still got to chase a subject access for my claim history and my medical records.

 

Absolutely shattered!!! Haven't got time to get better!!!!

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

To Nystagmite: Me neither, until a few days ago.

Clearly; disability puts an older head on very young shoulders. Have a friend who's wise beyond her years.

 

Caring for a grandparent: Check!

 

Adapting to disability: Check!

 

Coping with Atos: A very! very!! very!!! long 'work in progress'!

 

Persuading next door's absent landlord that our ajoining garage roofs do need re-felting: Check!

 

Avoiding the Small Claims Court: We're cautiously optimistic!

 

Avoiding a Social Entitlement Tribunal: An even longer!!!! 'work in progress'!

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Nystagmite: Can't decide whether I've upset you. Certainly didn't mean to. The comment was meant to be a sarcastic one, aimed at Grayling et al.

 

No way do I believe adaptation to disability equals no limited capability for work.

 

Best wishes with your job hunt/ESA claim, whichever's right for you, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Oh well . No time off for good behaviour.

 

Don't know if you can remember from n pages ago but I'm fighting Nottingham Atos as well. And I'm not inclined to accept a postcode lottery.

 

Feel free to use all of, any of, or none of, what I've done so far:

Written request to Atos for them to record my interrogation.

Copied to Padge Road.

Copy of last Thursday's parliamentary written answer, #26 on the sister thread, sent for attachment to request for recording.

Written request to Grayling for answer as to 'whether Atos can deny a recording following an advance written request'.

 

Do you have local details for Atos? If not:

Atos (we'll forget the healthcare bit cos I'm getting more stressed by the second)

Nottingham Business Park

Orchard Place

Nottingham

NG8 6PX

Telephone 01159 758351 (although my mantra is everything in writing)

 

Am very aware of earlier contributors who felt coerced into accepting interrogations without recording. They did what felt right for them at the time. I let myself be persuaded into not taking notes of an interrogation; a decision I regret cos we've had thirteen, and counting, angst ridden months waiting for an incap tribunal. Won't be making that mistake again. For the moment I'm set on a recording by Atos and prepared to argue the toss with Grayling and Padge Road. Well aware it may go pearshaped so plan B is notes. Or Atos'll drive me to covert digital recording literacy. One way or another I'm having a record of all future interrogations; can't afford not to. Short term pain for long term gain.

 

Keep at em if you can. Best wishes, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

'I read elsewhere that Atos is seeking the aid of PR consultants. Long way to go'

 

A never ending? 'work in progress'???????

 

Margaret

[**Margaret**]

Not just Atos's 'Professionals' (helped by Lima) who get to change the story as they go along.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Another Atos day:

 

Began with the discovery that Royal Mail had managed to deliver my advance written request for audio recording of my interrogation (correct address, correct postage, and sent recorded delivery) to; wait for it; the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency. Credit where it's due, someone from Atos went to retrieve it.

 

A summary of the ensuing conversation is that;

Next week's appointment's cancelled cos they haven't time to arrange recording.

Cancellation will be confirmed in writing.

A new appointment will be sent when they've 'got things sorted'.

 

Current furore about recording wasn't mentioned, probably by mutual agreement, nor was there any pressure to accept an unrecorded interview. All in all, everyone (cept Royal Mail) played nicely, for today, but it'll be an anxious wait for the cancellation letter.

 

Best wishes to everyone trying to cope with this fiasco.

Goodnight, Margaret.

Edited July 12, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

To: worried 33,

 

'.... what you did to get Atos to cancel?' During yesterday's conversation? Nothing!

Phone call was only about chasing the misdelivered letter. Atos offered to rebook with recording but as yet I've nothing in writing.

 

:flame:'best fit' smilies I can find to act as warning lights. (nods to Lima)

 

 

You've understood correctly that I sent Atos an advance written request for an audio recorded interrogation, with a copy of Grayling's parliamentary written answer stapled to it.

 

My preference for this kind of caper is always for it to be in writing. Bit like the need for recorded Atos interrogations. One knows what's been said, when it was said, and who said it. Not to mention avoiding the DWATO call centre roundabout. Which brings us to Atos 'customer relations'. Note they don't call it customer complaints; and so far as I know, never have done. You'll get an answer if you write to them but I doubt you'll like it.

 

Hope your Member of Parliament (assume s/he's not blue) or Welfare Rights can help. Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited July 12, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

Year three review of work capability assessment:

 

From page 14;

'The form (ESA50) ......... has been designed to be simpler to complete'

 

????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????????????????

 

Oh yeah? Can't say as we noticed. After two weeks puzzling we gave up on their silly boxes and submitted a statement instead.

 

To pinch from another site;

The ESA50 really is the most unfit for purpose form ever!!

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

To: worried33

 

 

Almost certain your benefit delivery centre will be Padge Road. Check the address on anything you've been sent from Jobcentreplus about your entitlement to benefit, changes in rates of benefit etcetera.

 

 

Only you can decide whether to risk a sanction for failure to attend. I'm still standing at the moment but my plan B is notes. Have to remember that there's no legislative right to audio record this persecution.

 

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

To nolegion and speedfreek:

 

Excellent find and interpretation

Wonder how we get them to read their own handbook?

 

 

Goodnight, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

LETTER:

 

Did I say I was still standing? Wishful thinking. Hubby 'sentenced' me to bed-rest yesterday cos I was too shattered, by the stress, to think straight. Anyway, as of this morning; Dilizjo has one of the rarest reconsiderations ever and I have one of the rarest letters from Atos ever; and like him/her know I'm very lucky. 'Twas totally, totally unexpected. No hospital appointments, no extenuating circumstances, possibly the recent parliamentary pressure on Mr Grayling? Who knows?

 

Kept my letter to Atos really simple;

'Please accept this letter as an advance written request for audio recording, by Atos, of xxxxxx's work capability assessment'. With a copy of Mr Grayling's parliamentary written answer, dated 5 July 12, stapled to the back of the letter.

 

Reply from Atos;

'Due to unforeseen/changed circumstances your appointment (the one they sent me for an unrecorded interrogation) has been cancelled.'

 

Have shared my experience with the hope that it'll help others. My very best wishes to one and all who are caught in this unfair fracas. Margaret.

Edited July 14, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

Caution:

 

Let's not get too excited, yet! After all, this debate with DWATO has been raging, on and off, for at least five years. Yes I'm pleased with the letter . Will the offer of a recorded interrogation follow? Have to wait and see.

 

Caution:

 

For anyone who's reading this; please, please don't cite my letter as reason for refusing an unrecorded interrogation. 'Tis a long, long road to tribunal (we've already been on it for thirteen long months). And an even longer one, without any benefit, for failure to attend or purported failure to attend cos one's been caught covertly recording, which I'm not against, but not everyone can cope with it. Live and let live. We've all to do what's right for us in this unfair fracas.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

ANOTHER LETTER:

 

My question to Mr Grayling;

 

'............I would appreciate departmental clarification as to whether Atos can deny a recording following an advance written request.'

 

Important bit of reply from Work and Pensions (after a lot of background stuff that most of us already know, Mr Harrington, reviewing the situation etcetera);

 

'The availability of audio recording was announced at a time when only small numbers were expected and since that time the number of requests has increased significantly. (Can't think why?) This has put pressure on the ability to provide sufficient capacity to meet all requests. The dual CD machines required for audio recording are a specialist item - there is only one manufacturer and machines are built on demand. .......... Although there have been increases in requests these still represent only a small percentage of overall WCAs - 242 (?) since March this year. In the meantime, whilst Atos will do all they can to accommodate requests for audio recording there may be times when the service cannot be offered, for example when it has not been possible to get access to recording equipment on the date/time of the WCA. ..........'

 

Had completely forgotten CIB/3117/08. Looks like we'll need it.

 

Bye for now. Hubby's prescribing an afternoon nap and threatening to hide the computer, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Simon7685:

Thanks for #433.

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Letter from Work and Pensions, dated 13 July 12:

 

The Department's line is and, so far as I know, remains unchanged since the end of last year despite some vague parliamentary written non-answers;

 

'.......... whilst Atos will do all that they can to accommodate requests for audio recording there may be times when the service cannot be offered ..........'

 

A part of the letter I didn't copy in #423;

 

'The dual CD machines required for audio recording are a specialist item - there is only one manufacturer and machines are built on demand. As a consequence there is a lead in time of four to 10 weeks. Additional machines have been ordered.'

(Didn't say how many, but 'machines' is plural. Maybe two?)

 

Suppose yesterday's written answer, 16 July 12, was clear. No plans to mention the option of a recorded interrogation on the unfit for purpose form, otherwise known as an ESA50. Probably no plans to mention the option of a recorded interrogation in the pretty pink booklet that comes with Atos appointments, even though they've had over a year to include it.

 

DWATO are less than serious about audio recording work capability interrogations?

Can't think where I got that idea from?

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

nolegion:

 

#31, #32, #33, on the sister thread. So wish you'd been right.

I got all enthusiastic about Mr Harrington's first review. Wish I'd not bothered.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Willowone:

 

 

Have you got anyone who can go with you to take notes? 'Tis better than nothing for those of us who don't feel confident about covert recording. Pages 136-137 of the latest work capability assessment handbook - on the Work n Pensions website. You'll probably have to wave a copy at the 'professional', we did at the last interrogation I chaperoned, but even Atos admit 'tis legal.

 

Very conscious that so far I've only won a battle, not the war.

 

Very best wishes, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

wobbly:

 

In our dreams maybe. But if we don't keep asking we'll not get.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Good cause for failure to attend an unrecorded interrogation:

 

May eventually, after the obligatory three to thirteen months wait, be decided by;

 

CIB/3117/08

 

Linked earlier in this thread by: nolegion.

'Tis also on the Tribunals Service decisions database.

Or, far simpler, can be Googled.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

DWATO:

 

Are so 'all in this together' we can't see the join.

 

There's no one answer to this unfair fracas.

 

Very best wishes, whatever you decide, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Willowone:

 

Sure your Mum'll do her best. Most Mums do.

 

'I'm not going down quietly!' Good for you. Easier said than done, but try not to let them put you off cos you may need whatever notes Mum can get for you.

 

Nowt left to say, for now, 'cept ,Margaret.

Edited July 19, 2012 by **Margaret**