Cap1 & CCA return

[noomill060]

Enid Blyton wrote some of the greatest works of children's fiction.

 

The authors of many credit agreements appear to share the same gift....

 

[noomill060]

The Famous Five-

 

Barclays

 

MBNA

 

Lloyds

 

Midland

 

NatWest

 

(Not forgetting Goldfish the Dog)

[noomill060]

It refers to stuff overleaf, so its printed on both sides. I take it thay sent you a copy of what it says on the other side? If it has the Prescribed Terms and they are correct, its probably enforceable.

 

Its not like they sent you a copy of of an application form which cross references to a T&C booklet. It all there on two sides of the same document.

 

Sorry.

[noomill060]

"However the Information Commissioners Office take the view that if they process data while in breach of the CCA, then that is just plain and simple unlawful processing. And as such,

it does not matter how legitimate their interests may be, they cannot process that data."

 

 

This is not my experience of the ICOs position, lookingforinfo.

 

Phone the ICO's office and see what their reaction is to the scenario you describe.

[noomill060]

They will blurt out the Data Protection Act's position and convieniently ignore the CCA "unenforceaable without leave from a Court" bit.

[noomill060]

And of course sending a default notice is a necessary part of enforcement as laid out in CCA, registering a default against an individual with a CRA isnt.

[noomill060]

Particularly when any agreement you may have is improperly executed at best, and may even be unenforceable.

[noomill060]

I'll go through my emails from them and get back to you.

 

Generally they seem to liberally interpret the lender's right to process data to CRAs concerning alleged defaults on the grounds that lenders need the data to consider whether to lend to an individual and that this overides an individual's rights to privacy, even though the individual informs the ICO that the lender is in default of a s.78 request, or whether the agreement is improperly executed or even unenforceable due to s.127(3)

 

As long as the lender confirms the data regarding the borrowing is correct, the CRA and ICO are happy to process and allow processing.

[noomill060]

Thanks for the update, Peter.

 

Reading between the lines, it looks like they will eventually make the right decision.

[noomill060]

"Reporting defaults to credit reference agencies lies with us. Nevertheless we returned to the OFT to ask for an approximate timetable for their negotiations because we thought that it needed a co-ordinated approach. This was in April if my memory serves and I have chased a response recently. Unfortunately I have not yet had a response – but will contact them again. We are ready to initiate negotiations – which will have to involve those who file information as well as the agencies who receive it."

If they havent recieved a response from the OFT by now, it would seem that they dont share their view that this requires a "coordinated approach".

 

As they say: "Reporting defaults to credit reference agencies lies with us"

[noomill060]

Originally posted by TheAnalyst here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/107704-information-commissioners-office-say.html

 

 

 

I am suprised at the Information Commissioners Office's reply to my complaint about Littlewoods, I sent them a copy of a letter from littlewoods in which they clearly state that they have no signed credit agreement. My complaint was that without a signed credit agreement they MUST be breaking the Data Protection Act in sharing information to third parties (CRA's)

 

Here's their reply:

 

 

Quote:

Dear Mr Analyst

 

 

 

Thank you for your further correspondence regarding information recorded on your credit file by Littlewoods.

 

I apologise if you feel that I misunderstood your complaint. Under the Data Protection Act 1998, lenders are not required to have a credit agreement signed by you in order to pass information to the credit reference agencies. The lenders will have explained in their terms and conditions that if your account goes into default; they are within their rights to pass this information to the credit reference agencies. This is compliant with the first principle of the Data Protection Act 1998 which states that personal information shall be processed fairly and lawfully.

 

Therefore it does not appear that Littlewoods would be in breach of the Data Protection Act. This may however be an issue under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which you would have to clarify with the Office of Fair Trading.

 

 

I trust that this clarifies the situation.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

Sarah Cookson

 

Customer Services Team

 

The Information Commissioners Office

 

This surely cannot be right????

[noomill060]

jonchris- that is exactly what I thought.

[noomill060]

The lovely Sarah appears to take a different view, she is after all, an ICO Customer Service Team member.( They do know best...)

[noomill060]

Ive put a link on the thread, on which the letter from the Lovely (but misinformed) Sarah, was originally posted.

[noomill060]

The LACORS letter would thus appear to apply to any improperly executed credit arangement, where the original sum borrowed has been repaid, but a negative balance remains, consisting wholley of charges and interest.

[noomill060]

Hi Peter,

 

Of course, it would quite wrong for anyone to say that goods should not be paid for.

 

However, I did say that where the borrower has repaid the ACTUAL sum borrowed, and the creditor, by its own foolishness, has been unable to provide a properly executed agreement wherein the borrower agreed to pay interest and charges, it appears unjust for them to assume that they still have the right to tell the world about it, even though the agreement may only be enforceable by court order, if at all.

 

 

This is my understanding of the final paragraph in the LACORS letter, forgive me if i have misunderstood it.

 

"The opinion of LACORS is that where a creditor accepts that an agreement is unenforceable against a consumer they should not be permitted to 'punish' the consumer by placing a record of the 'default' on their credit reference file. To do so would be unfair and unreasonable. It would also lessen the impact of the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act which make it clear that a creditor should not be allowed to enforce a credit agreement where the agreement is improperly executed.""

[noomill060]

But why should the opinion of the creditor be considered?

 

Either the agreement is properly executed and enforceable or it isnt, the creditor is hardly a dispassionate observer and is thus not in a position to comment on the agreement, which it was their responsibility (and in there own interest) to ensure enforceablitity.

[noomill060]

I can see lots of gooses and ganderers adding up all their compounded interest this afternoon and evening...

 

Marc Ganderer?

[noomill060]

Compound interest calculator

 

[noomill060]

Compound interest is basically interest on interest on interest on interest on interest.

[noomill060]

...on interest charged on the sum you borrowed in the first place.

 

Or they sum THEY unlawfully deprived you of since the date they did so.

[noomill060]

not really.

 

Ad infinitum means "and so on, into infinity"

 

With compounding you are charged interest on all the previous interest you havent paid off.

 

The other form is called Simple interest, where you only pay interest on the actual amount borrowed.

 

Money is only ever available to borrow commercially at a compounded rate

[noomill060]

Infinity is well, get a small mirror, hold it in front of a large mirror so the image of the large mirror is reflected in the smaller mirror.

 

You will see an infinate number of reflections which appear to stretch out into infinity - ad infinitum.

[noomill060]

Too small to see, could you put a larger image up?

[noomill060]

Interest rate?

 

repayment period?

 

Credit limit?

 

Signature of creditor?

 

This is an application form.