Cap1 & CCA return

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Uni

 

I cant se the agreement

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi

 

I am afraid that "the not in the public interst to pusrue", is a fact that we are going to have to live with in regards to section 77 requests i have just recieved a lettere from the undersecretary on state regardsing this after a long drawn out debate which i argued strenuously to the contrarry.

He also says within the letter that creditors are allowed to to pusrsue a debt whilst the default continues but they are not allowd to threaten action which they cannot take (through the courts) i am seeking clarification that this means they cannot enter defaults or use the permission granted under the agreement to share data with credit agencies,which would seem to be the logical conclusion.

With regards to your letter to the TS have you considered using my letter of a few posts back

 

Consumer Credit Act Agreements

 

it states the regulations that point to the requirements that the creditor must meet in ordr to comply with the request and especialluy in sending sepperate terms and conditions.

 

Best regards

peter

 

Hi Peter

 

Cant believe whats going on with T/S they are not doing the job they are paid to do.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi

 

Just to clarify in pre 2005 agreements the prescribed terms do not have to be on the same page as the signature they do have to be within the same document but the signature box can be anywhere within the agreement.

 

The terms and conditions that are specified within schedule one of the regulations and contain the prescribed terms shoud be contained within the agreement and not on a seperrat document labled terms and conditions.

 

The agreement together with the terms itemised within the agreement regulations should be the ones that were current when the agreement was signed . Section 7 of the 1983/1557 copy of document regulations state that if their has been any varyation of the agreement these should be enclosed together with the agreement in the form of itemised information or a copy of the varied t and c;s but this is in addition to the ones contained within the agreement not in place of.

 

Best regards

Peter

 

just thinking about this one.

 

When you say with in the same document can it be in the T&C if they are on a separate piece of paper but allegedly sent out at the same time.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi Paul

 

Its got me thinking about another CCA request i did to HSBC.

 

No prescribed terms but on the last page in the T&C there is the prescribed terms.

 

As you can see it is a seperate peice of paper and after the signature.

 

What do you think?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/110445-hsbc-cca-responce-help.html

[Having_A_Knightmare]

I have to ask another lender this. I will be reminding them that they will have to provide the original in court, so any statement they make will be corroborated and if it's wrong, they would be prosocuted under the Fraud Act.

 

good on you Uni!!!

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi Bilegeman

 

I can only view no2

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Thanks Peter for that.

 

What section of the CCA1974 does it state the formate.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Noomillo

 

Are you right in saying they have sent you an application form with No prescribed terms, and a T&C leaflet with the precscribed terms in it

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Noomillo

 

What did the barister tell ou to do

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi all

 

Got a question that is hindering a couple of my CCA requests,

 

They have not sent me the original T&C. I know it is breach of section 78(1) but what would happen if it went to court.

 

 

Also if you have a CC with a lender and they change to another company ie Accucard-LTSB would the original agreement be OK or would the new lender have to supply a new agreement.

 

Cheers HAK

Cheers HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

I have an update on a complaint I made to Trading Standards about an agreement I received with a copy of the current terms and conditions only. I have been told that Reg 7 of the 1983 Regulations demands that every copy shall include the terms as varied.

The letter goes on to say that the contentious point is whether these varied terms must be in addition to the original copy terms. The creditor's view is that the varied terms only have to be supplied and that it has been confirmed to them by external legal advice.

My Trading Standards office are not happy and have asked the OFT to give a view. I have asked for a copy of that view when they get it.

 

Just read the above post.

 

This is unbelievable and relates to my requests.

 

Surely they cant just supply any terms they decide to print

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

section 78 says an agreement and any other document related so in my opinion all the T&C should be produced.

 

The Copy regs 1983 are the worse thing ever and I thing they have not been wrote properly

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi all

 

Has anybody got any info regarding the T&C supplied on a Section 78(1) request.

 

I am sick of them replying saying under the copy docs regs 1983 section 7 they only have to supply the most varied T&C.

 

Has Anybody got the proof so I can write to them, or are they correct telling me this.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi

 

This is the bitfrom the regulations notice it says shal include in other words the information should be presented as well as the orriginal

 

7.--(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either-

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied; or

(b) an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82( 1) of the Act.

 

Also in order to vary an agreeemnt they would have had to show that they have your consent on the orriginal without this the varied agreement is void.

 

Best regards

Peter

 

Thanks for that Peter.

 

Whats your view on a section 78 request where they do not supply T&C but then take you to Court with the agreement. Can a judge still give judgment or would the matter of been in default be good enough to get it thrown out.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

hI

 

No the court would enforce the agreement if it was properly executed as the default would be remedied on production.

 

However

 

The creditor could request a copy under the pre hearing rules, if the creditor refused to supply and then turned up in court with them the judge would be very unhappy about them wasting the courts time when the matter could have bee sorted out without it's intervention.

 

Best regards

Peter

 

Peter

 

If they did not have the original T&C then could the judge give judgement.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Only if the agreement conforms with section 61(a) and has the relevant prescribed terms etc.

 

Hi

 

Still not sure about this. If the creditor has an agreement with all the prescribed terms on it but no original T&C and he goes to court the account is still in default under section 78(1).

 

Can the Judge award judgment with just the agreement alone

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Any Coments Peter

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi Peter

 

Thanks for that.

 

Its so anoying with these banks they are just ignoring all the rules.

 

It will be intresting with my RBS account as they have a scanned doc and no original T&C (up to now). I might bite the bullet and invite them to take me to court but then again would they show!!!

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Just an observation but shouldnt the request include a request for a statement of account and terms and conditions?

 

Hi

 

Maybe the Original terms and conditions

[Having_A_Knightmare]

I think a key point in the cases raised by Mr Bardsley is that if a lender is unable to satisfy their obligations in respect of a request made under sections 77 or 78 then, as mentioned above, the debt cannot be enforced through the courts until the default is remedied.

 

Very intresting point above. This answers my question to the missing T&C from RBS. As they have not supplied them on a S78 request the account is still in default and they can not take me to court with the agreeement alone.

 

Also Peter I have reported T/S to my MP. I am awaiting the responce so may be intresting in what the MP says.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

I will be telling Mr Hunt how the FOS are about as much good as a Chocolate Fireguard!!!!!

 

Useless is to good a word

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

HELP

 

T/S are doing my head in .

 

The quote is the letter I sent and the photo is the responce

 

Could do with some advice please!!!

 

Peter B what do you think about T&C answer!!!

HAK

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam:

 

I am writing regarding your letter dated xx November 2007. I have spoken to Ms xxxxxxx on Friday evening regarding this issue and was put through to the enforcement officer. This gentleman has sent you an email to contact me by phone. I do not feel this will be necessary as my views will be in the information below.

 

Firstly in my letter dated xx October I asked ‘why it is not in the public interest’ to deal with my case, this point has not been answered by yourselves and I am still awaiting an answer.

 

Back to you letter dated xx November. You mention the civil aspect to the CCA breach. I can fully understand that it would be up to a Judge on the day to determine if the scanned copy of the agreement would be enforceable. I also understand that ever copy produced has to be a true copy NOT a digitally scanned computer stored image that could be altered, therefore in my opinion they are in breach of section 78(1) reportable to Trading Standards.

 

Also you fail to mention about the original terms and conditions not supplied under a section 78(1) request. I have stated this in the last two letters and it seems to have fallen on deaf ears. These original T&C have to be supplied with the section 78(1) request. As the T&C where not supplied the account remains in default and the RBS have committed a criminal offence enforced by Trading Standards.

 

I originally wrote to you on the xx September 2007 and in over two months no progress has been made. I feel your attitude towards this complaint as been poor and I also feel that you are reluctant to approach the RBS.

 

I state again that Trading Standards are instructed to enforce the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and in my opinion you have had plenty of time and opportunities to do so. Therefore please treat this letter as a formal complaint and forward on to me your complaints procedure. I will also be forwarding this additional information on to MP to add to my complaint.

 

 

[Having_A_Knightmare]

I know Uni

 

What do you think about the comment

 

I have spoken to Graeme Hill who is the Home Authority contact for RBS

 

Whos he and why they taliking to him

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi

 

Below is the agreement sent to my other half after a CCA request.

I have wrote to them twice regarding its unreadable. Just had a reply back and they have enlarged the T&C not the agrement.

 

Looks like they only have a poor photocopy. What would the judge do if this was taken to Court.

 

HAK

 

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi ncf355

 

YOu are right about the office signature.

 

THe copy you see is as clear as I can see and cannot make anything out.

 

Surely a judge could not exept this.

 

HAK