Ingeus

[Mr.P]

It's wonderfully simple as far as the DWP and WP go; you're 'signed up' with Ingeus for 2 years so anything you accomplish will be automatically accredited to them. A brilliant strategy, isn't it? (for them, not you). They can make £14,000+ per client if the client gets a job and they claim every possible payment they can

 

FYI: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmworpen/162/16208.htm

The typical 18-24 year old JSA claimant is worth £3,810, and the older ones, £4,395, only the ex-IB ESA claimants are worth £13,720. The new ESA claimants are worth much less at a paltry £6,500.

 

Note: Now that the Work Programme has been running for over two years, the attachment payments are now zero. The 18-24 JSA is now worth £3,410, 25+ JSA, £3,995. and top rate ESA claimants, £13,120.

 

Based on the above figures, it makes sense to process larger numbers of low value JSA claimants (push them in to any low paid job) and make a quick buck. The more difficult cases can be pushed to the bottom of the pile...

[Mr.P]

Am i wrong in thinking that they have to meet a target number of sanctions or are they just completely incompetent?

 

There are no "official" sanction targets that have to be met. There might be unofficial league tables in place, but it is impossible to this verified by the DWP - If anyone tells you that a Work Programme provider gets a bonus for each successful sanction raised, take it with a huge pinch of salt and demand to see the proof.

 

As for "are they just completely incompetent" - Completely, utterly, and totally !

The welfare to work industry has had some twenty to thirty years to redefine incompetent and turn it in to a profit making venture.

[Mr.P]

"Due to unforeseen circumstances I cannot make our 14.00 meeting tomorrow. Can you please come in at 12.30 instead as I need to leave the office at 14.00"

 

Errmm... No. You made the appointment in good time. If you want to go get your hair done or broke a nail, don't expect me to rearrange my day to suit you.

"Why did you apply for this job?"

 

Because it was advertised.

[Mr.P]

I received a letter today stating I did not attend my mwa when I was supposed to. I could of sworn I spent the last week trying to figure out how to fold a saree. Ingeus are thick as 2 short planks.

 

 

Did you have to fill in any time/attendance sheets ?

 

 

If so, ask the shop to provide a copy for you. If no timesheet, ask the manager if she would put it in writing as to what hours you attended. Keeping a copy for yourself, send this evidence to the Ingeus office in question along with copies of all travel expense receipts and demand refunds. Undoubtedly, Ingeus will have thoughtfully raised the alleged non-attendance with the JCP, so you can expect a "good reason" letter from the DWP shortly - Have a copy of the evidence ready so that you can challenge any sanction attempt.

 

 

As from Monday, I would suggest keeping a personal record of all time spent on MWA and get it signed off by a manager at the end of each day.

[Mr.P]

Modern technology has multiple modes of reciprocal failure - Who is to say the text message arrived or even got read in good time.

 

Go in, claim back your travel expenses, get proof of attendance, and avoid any prospect of a sanction.

 

 

 

 

 

Ill my ****. Long bank holiday weekend, probably swinging the lead to turn it in to a longer break.

[Mr.P]

Withheld number on a bank holiday - The most likely candidate is some sca m merchant trying to sell solar panels, PPI claim, or some other bogus offer.

 

A reputable UK employer wouldn't be running a HR department on a public holiday nor would they withhold their number.

[Mr.P]

On your exit interview remember to tell them FIRMLY that you never want to hear from them again - ever - and will raise a harassment complaint if they do.

 

You could also insist that they provide documentary evidence of the "personalised and tailored support" that they claimed to offer when they tendered for the contract.

 

 

A couple of weeks after getting a copy of your exit report, it would be well worth submitting a SAR to the DWP requesting all computer and manual records held by Ingeus - It won't cost you anything and gives them something to do (as well as costing them a bit of time and money).

[Mr.P]

[...] the few jobs they 'found'. One of the jobs had already closed and I did point it out to them but they said 'apply anyway'

 

Local A4e office sent me a letter notifying me of a vacancy that I didn't even bother applying for. At the next meeting, I was asked "did you apply ?" to which I replied with three pertinent points:

 

1. The job spec required very specific experience which I did not possess.
   
2. By the time the letter arrived and I had opened it, the application window was closed.
   
3. The fool that had sent me the letter had stuck a 2nd class stamp on it - IF they had used a 1st class stamp, I would have had the letter the following day and still had the chance to submit an application (not that I would have done).
   

The response was "we can not be held responsible for the time it takes Royal Mail to deliver a letter."...... My contempt for them reached a new level that day.

[Mr.P]

apparently they are not funded by the job centre in anyway and mantra pay for all the training provided so obviously they want to see how there investment is going and will be phoning our private numbers every 2 weeks

to see how were getting on

 

They have probably tapped in to ESF funding, in which case, any paperwork should have an ESF logo somewhere.

 

As for ringing the participants every two weeks - That is just one more reason I do not give out my phone number. If you want to communicate with me, do so in writing. If it is good enough quality paper, I have the option to use it to line the kitty litter tray.

[Mr.P]

I also take umbrage to the not being allowed on holiday (outside the UK) when on JSA

 

Of course you can take a holiday outside the UK - You just need to close your claim on the day you leave and make a rapid reclaim on your return.

[Mr.P]

[...] are you saying that because there aren't enough volunteer places or work placements available we will simply have to sign on each day instead?

 

Can't answer the question on policy, but it certainly looks like mandatory "volunteer" placements are going to get harder to find. Looking at the list of groups signed up to Keep Volunteering Voluntary, there is one notable and major player and I'm sure more will follow. Congratulations to Oxfam for taking a moral stand on the issue.

[Mr.P]

This "Help to Work" thing is likely to be aimed at all long term claimants, so even if your Work Programme sentence was completed before April 28th, I suspect you will get a taste of it at some point. Regionally, many Job Centres are struggling with space and staffing so that may well limit the impact of these new "measures".

 

I suspect many charities will want to distance themselves from the idea of exploiting the unemployed - This should go some way to limiting the number of placements available for this community work scheme.

[Mr.P]

Predictably, Ingeus are now bombarding me with calls demanding to know what I am doing. They have been quite rude, ignoring hangups and disconnects and ringing up to 10 times a day.

 

Do Ingeus have any hold over me?

 

So what can Ingeus do if I keep on choosing to ignore them?

 

At what point does all this become harassment?

 

If you are no longer in receipt of JSA or ESA, then Ingeus has no hold over you.

If you are not receiving any benefit payments from the DWP, Ingeus can do nothing.

It becomes harassment the minute you decide enough is enough.

 

You need to send a letter to the manager of the office in question stating that any further contact will be regarded as harassment and will be reported to the relevant authorities. Keep a log of all phone calls, and report them to your telephone provider, OFCOM, and the ICO - You can also report them to the police as harassment is a criminal offence.

[Mr.P]

Working Tax Credits is provided by HMRC, Council Tax and Housing benefits by your council - Neither group will have any communication with Ingeus and would probably tell them to "mind your own business".

 

Certainly worth making your MP and PAC aware of the deceit, but don't expect much from that avenue - Unless you have concrete documentary evidence, much of what you could say will be dismissed.

[Mr.P]

I wonder if non-responsiveness to their pestering has any material effect on their revenue stream from the DWP? Presumably they can just fabricate responses as they do with other things.

 

They require "evidence" for auditing purposes, but at the end of the day, the DWP will pay out because you are "off benefits" - This takes time and certainly slows down the speed at which Ingeus can claim a valid outcome payment.

 

The other tack you could try when writing to this bunch:

As an independent consultant, my time has a value. Therefore, should you require any forms and supporting evidence from myself, I am obliged to charge you for my time. As you are not an account holder or on my preferred client list, a fee of £xxx is required in advance.

[Mr.P]

The whole jobseek system is outdated as most companies do not bother with people riniging them asking for jobs, in this day and age they have a website with the vacancies on, so going directly to the website and uploading your CV is far better than posting 'spec letters' and phoning up.

 

A careers advisor told me that "spec letters do not get a job and are a waste of time. They only serve one purpose, and that is to keep the JCP off your back".

 

As for company websites - With larger companies, you can upload a CV of fill in an online application, get through the initial selection process and have an interview booked before the vacancy appears on UJM. Some employers will even allow you to register on their system and send out email alerts when a vacancy is posted.

[Mr.P]

[...]they will need to supply envelopes, use of a printer, stamps and also my bus fares to the nearest post office which is 4 miles away from me. I told her that once a week would be £5.70 bus, 10 stamps at around £5.00, and extra visit to INGEUS to use printer at £5.70 etc so she can pay me in petty cash to do this - £16.40 please INGEUS

 

How unprofessional and cheap - You should be using first class stamps...

Bound and printed CV at A4 posted as a large letter would be a minimum of 93p, and of course the larger envelopes cost more....

[Mr.P]

Several posters were under the impression that jobseekers were too scruffy and needed to smarten themselves up.

 

I would agree that a disproportionate number of JSA claimants are somewhat scruffy or take the casual look a little too far. I would often wear a clean white shirt to the Job Centre and have a tie in a pocket - If/when asked "why ?", the response would have been: "Calling in on an agency or possible employer after leaving here". Now't wrong with looking as if you are prepared and it may help to avoid the Spanish Inquisition.

[Mr.P]

Just popping in for my monthly rant about this sham of an organisation.

 

"Well, no. Basically what's going to happen is that we've booked you into our other Ingeus office in another town - 75 minute bus journey, 15 minute walk to the office - for 9am on Monday morning."

 

Only one rant per month ???

 

75 min on the bus, plus another 15 minutes walk - Have they accounted for:

 

• The walking distance & time from your house to the nearest bus stop.
  
• What time the buses start running in the morning.
  

If you work back from 9:00AM, allow a little time to arrive early along with sufficient time if there are any bus changes required, can you get there in 90 minutes (including walking time) ?

 

In these parts, public transport sucks at 7-7:30AM, and as jasta11 has commented, telephone calls are insufficient for a M.A.N.

[Mr.P]

My ingeus advisor gets £100, for everyone who gets a job or gets fed up and leaves while they are with him...

 

How much does the client get if he/she persuades the adviser to leave ?

[Mr.P]

.....my advisor said they were waiting for an interpreter to arrive.....and I'd best not ask how much he cost....

 

"So you have enough money to pay for an interpreter to turn up, yet refuse to reimburse legitimate travel expenses in full".....

Or perhaps raise the subject when they refuse to fund any worthwhile training on the grounds of cost - They have just handed you some juicy ammunition. Use it to take a few well aimed pot-shots when the time comes.

[Mr.P]

Adviser "How are you getting on?"

Me "Applying away, no luck, got to keep plodding along"

Adviser "I find it surprising you are getting no replies"

 

At which point I would be asking:

"You people claim to be able to tap in to the hidden job market and have exclusive contacts - Where is the tailored and personalised support that you promised to deliver when tendering for this contract ?"

[Mr.P]

What is it with this "hidden jobs" thing?

[...]

I go with "lie" myself. Call me a cynic...

 

In the past I have had one job that I was alerted to via a neighbour, another where I was in the right place at the right time after the previous employee went out with a bang - Neither were advertised. My current employment was a case of the vacancy was never advertised externally, or internally, the "job offer" just appeared.

 

Whilst it is worth being cynical, there are some jobs out there that never advertised and others are circulated within a limited area. Having contacts on the inside is often the only way of finding these vacancies. Whether the likes of Ingeus have the necessary "contacts" across a wide range of industries is highly debatable and I see little evidence of their claims bearing fruit.

[Mr.P]

Seetec is still worst

it wasn't ok to ring the entry bell more then three times as they wouldn't let you in

the interviewer was rude and actually more interested in the security cam than listening to me and I got frisked

 

OK, will only ring the bell once. But it will ring for as long as it takes you to open the f***ing door...

You wanna frisk me !!! That is common assault and could even be deemed a sexual assault - Want to risk a criminal conviction for that buster ?

[Mr.P]

He went on to tell me that the law has changed and they no longer need my consent as he CAN and WILL contact any employers to check on me...I gave him a little smile and replied 'only if I tell you where I'm working.'

 

The law has not changed - If you get fed this B.S. again, ask exactly which piece of legislation is being referred to along with the relevant revision. What has changed is the granting of a Designation Order which allows a person authorised by the Secretary of State to "use information for relevant purposes" - Prior to the D.O., only a limited number of people were granted the required authority. Some links to peruse:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wp139-provider-memo-claimant-consent-before-contacting-an-employer

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wp134-provider-memo-claimant-consent

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/consent_flag

data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2013-1285/designation_order.pdf

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/30/contents

 

Bottom line: If you do not want a Work Programme provider harassing any potential employer, do not tell the DWP when you close your claim.

 

The best way to deal with Ingeus is to take a firm stance from the start; know your rights - and the guidance - and show them you won't be messed about and are prepared to report them. Record ALL conversations with them and keep copies of ALL paperwork (even if they don't want you to).