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    • The outlet is in Camden Town and was set up in 2006, a year after my husband established the business, in addition to selling at exhibitions, online, shows, events, and having licensing agreements in some places overseas.  The only thing I have stopped doing since I got ill is the physical stuff, which I’m working on. The business has not changed name or anything like that either. I’m not sure where the original contract with Camden is but the management must still have it. My husband died in Jan 2017, and until Sept 2018, I would take the stock in every week; after that I was sending it in by post. I went in now and then when possible to re-do the display but that was about it. No one had access to any files until 2020. Moved house in 2020 thought would have to pull it all, Covid had just hit as well. The person in question said he would be interested in taking over and paying the rent etc. so I said I would let him sell the pictures for nothing as long as he would ‘keep it warm’ for me.  Obviously, everywhere was closed for lockdown. During this time I was working out how to go forward.  In May 2022 I told him I couldn’t  give anything away for free anymore, and put in place the wholesale agreement.  I’ve disregarded any discrepancies from before this date. I sent over the jpgs electronically, so I’ve still got them too. He hasn’t got any original files like .psds negatives or memory cards etc, I’ve got proof of all ownership/copyright. A co-op is whereby a small number of neighbours work on a rotational basis so they each of them can have time off, that way everyone doesn’t need to be there at the same time, he had never been an employee of mine.  The only reason I allowed him to have the files in the first place as I didn’t want to lose that side of the business.  It’s a good, constant source of income. However, the rent was becoming crippling as I believed there was something fishy going on well before this as there’s so much cash dealt with there, and I couldn’t go in regularly in person, and I’m sure sales weren’t being recorded properly and cash was being pocketed. My husband was too busy to be doing any stock control properly, he wasn't really into paperwork, and the guy who was ‘helping’ me after my husband's death, was making things very difficult for me to implement a solid stock control system by refusing to co-operate on simple things like using email etc. which I thought was a smokescreen, so I severed ties with him just before I made the agreement in question. I sent about 100 images, jpg files, sent via We Transfer. I’ve got the confirmation of which files were sent with dates. I will have to go through closed bank accounts and previous tax returns to get a proper estimate.   Before I made this agreement, I was selling retail there, this is a wholesale agreement so I’ll have to do some calculations but it is definitely in the thousands.  I haven’t got his his home address, and I don't think he's got any sizeable assets. I’m also worried that he might send the files overseas and start selling them there. I know he’s not stupid enough to sell them online. He knows for sure how serious this is, but he’s been chancing it and thinks I’m stupid, if not soft and stupid. I don’t know if this would work but I am thinking that when he does contact me, I tell him we need to talk, tell him I know what he’s been up to, and strongly urge him not to order any more prints from wherever he is having them printed because it will make things much worse for him if he does. Then when I do tell him about the gravity of the situation, maybe a few days later, I think it will scare him into complying because the consequences definitely trump the few quid he thinks he is saving by getting his own printing done. Tell him an amount that I want back for lost revenue, and make it clear that if he doesn’t destroy the files and if I find out he is still doing it at any point down the line, I will seek prosecution for copyright infringement and fraud, which I will. I don’t know how I can enforce any of this without involving the courts though. I will be able to tell, though, and he will know this. And the only reason I am doing this now rather than before, is that I couldn’t prove anything until now.  It was screamingly obvious from the beginning though, as he wasn’t ordering enough from me to pay the rent, let alone make a profit. If I decided to come down like him lie a ton of bricks straight away, how would I go about a cease and desist, would I have to get one from the court? And what do I do about the stock he currently holds? It has also occurred to me that he might file for bankruptcy or similar if things get heavy, where would that leave me? I could put the feelers out for a brand-new person to take it on, obviously without giving them access to files, that is an option. But that comes with its own set of issues. Also, would there be any implications for me, if I kept quiet for now? Let him order again from me as if nothing has happened, as it will be any day and I want to get all my ducks in a row first ideally….   Thanks again
    • I’ve also just realised their online website they’ve got 12 photographs of my vehicle, including close ups of the inside?? Not sure why that’s relevant.  The time stamp on the first photo is 13:57, the PCN incident time is 14:12. 
    • I’m tempted to send a letter to the company outlining the reasons why I think their PCN is illegitimate. I guess will technically be an appeal.  Their documentation states they won’t discuss over phone, I also don’t want them to have my email address.    re signage on entrance, having looked at land registry, the whole road is private, and when you turn into the road off the highway, there is a sign on the lamppost about 20m in, again not noticeable and on the other side of the road.  I feel like I am in a difficult position with this, I understand that I may have a good chance of not having to pay, but at the same token the stress this is already causing me makes me feel like it’s not worth the £60!
    • Well done with the photo. Of course the signage is insufficient.  PPM are not interested in competent management of a car park, they are interested in catching drivers out so they can issue their PCNs. For a start, according to their trade associations' Codes of Practice, they are supposed to have signage at the entrance. Any e-mail reply from the company and whether they will/won't/can/can't get the invoice cancelled?    
    • I will annotate the message I sent for the forum.  Sorry, didn't see this straight away...
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Taking a student to court.


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Both student and guarantor work so may be worth doing even just for the satisfaction of getting them to realise they cannot just walk away!

 

It may also cause problems for the student if they want further accommodation later this year

 

Crikey I am thinking like a DCA! :eek:

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Oops, lol. I'll put it back to legal issues if you like. Can't think of anything else.:|

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Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Just spotted this and thought of your problem dotty. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=163&a=213

Edited by caro
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The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I've changed the link. It's to an announcement about a TV company looking for people with problems with student accommodation.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Will be interesting to see if they take you up on it. I've never heard of a situation like yours and it would be good for people to be aware that this can happen, and more importantly what you can do about it.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I don't think any parent would sign a guarantee under a joint and several liability if they realised exactly what they are agreeing to.

 

The annual rent on this property is getting on for £30k, yes that's right!

 

Unfair contract? Possibly!

 

Good job only one student left..........................so far!

 

What's so frustrating is neither the student or their guarantor will acknowledge that they are liable and obviously expect us to pick up their debt. :frusty:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I need to establish if we can issue a claim against the student and guarantor now for the whole of the sum that will be due at the end of the tenancy?

 

I am concerned that the student will have moved on by then and we will not have any idea of their address

 

Does anyone have any idea?

 

I will also get the thread title changed to avoid confusion

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Check the terms of the tenancy to see what should have been paid when they left. By the time you send a letter before action and start a claim I suspect that the tenancy will be virtually finished anyway.

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Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hi Caro,

 

Calculating the shortfall is the easy bit because we are have already had to pay some of it and there is another four months of the tenancy to go.

 

I think I will prepare a letter before action and see if it gets a response, neither student or parent has responded to a previous email!

 

Have I seen some LBA template letters on here?

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We had them for bank claims but not so sure now and this isn't the same scenario..

 

Technically I think you should send them a preliminary letter telling them what you want to pay and give them 14 days to comply. Tell them if they don't you'll be considering court action. If that doesn't work send an LBA saying you're disappointed they haven't complied, and give them another 14 days and then you file a claim in court.

 

This means you've followed the CPR and given them 28 days before going to court which is reasonable. You could perhaps suggest that mif they can't pay they let you know so that you can come to a mutually acceptable arrangement.

 

If you want to draft something and post it up I'd be happy to take a look.

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Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Blimey eds missed this one!

I doubt you could claim against the guarantors, for the reasons expressed earlier, especialy if challenged! or LL you for that matter ( defo challenge that )

I suggest that neither you or the LL want to got court, so why dont all of the remaing students/parents try to come to some arrangement with LL for missing rent.

reduced amount but guaranteed payment.

negotiation rather than litigation.

Just a thought!:roll:

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Blimey eds missed this one!

I doubt you could claim against the guarantors, for the reasons expressed earlier, especialy if challenged! or LL you for that matter ( defo challenge that )

I suggest that neither you or the LL want to got court, so why dont all of the remaing students/parents try to come to some arrangement with LL for missing rent.

reduced amount but guaranteed payment.

negotiation rather than litigation.

Just a thought!:roll:

 

The very reason for pre-action protocols to make sure no-one rushes to court as a first resort.:-)

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Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Blimey eds missed this one!

 

I doubt you could claim against the guarantors, for the reasons expressed earlier, especialy if challenged! or LL you for that matter ( defo challenge that )

Sorry, what do yo mean, challenge what?

 

 

I suggest that neither you or the LL want to got court, so why dont all of the remaing students/parents try to come to some arrangement with LL for missing rent.

reduced amount but guaranteed payment.

negotiation rather than litigation.

The landlord has already obtained a ccj against the guarantor and had no hesitation about taking the rest of us if WE did not pay the outstanding amount, which we have now paid

 

Just a thought!:roll:

 

Why do you think we couldn't claim from the guarantor?

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Gurantor form notnormally valid unless witnessed and signed by parties as a Deed, possibly under seal. any agreement/contract must have value to both sides. A Guarantor has no benefiet in the arrangement therefore usual contract/ agreement not valid, so must be done as witnessed legal document as in a will. affidavit etc.

CCJ was only granted on Guarantor because it was not challenged in court.

 

Sorry if its too late, missed that you had paid already!

Just to check was any deposit paid by defaulting tennant that could have been used.

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Don't apologise, I appreciate any help given thank you.

 

Actually that's a very good point about the guarantees, all the signatures were done by post so Mickey Mouse could have signed them! No witnesses or identification proven at the time either. I did think about challenging this but we as guarantors were concerned about getting a ccj.

 

I did question the fact that the landlord had accepted a guarantor who was obviously not capable of fulfilling their obligations, yet we had to pay for references before the tenancy was agreed, but the question was not answered! I am beginning to think that maybe we shouldn't have rolled over so easily, let the landlord issue a claim as threatened and put a counterclaim in?

 

There will still be further monies due by the time the tenancy ends so maybe I should try and get a free consultation with a solicitor to see if they think the paperwork would stand up in court?

 

No holding deposit was paid, which seemed like a good thing at the time but it could have been to our advantage if one had been .

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You neednt of waited for it go to court to mention the suspected invalidity of the guarantor form, just a letter to the LL pointing this out may have done the trick and possibly stopped the action.

good luck anyway.

we all learn by experince and anything that avoids the use of solicitors or courts is always good, as there is less stress and maybe a few quid.

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Nothing would stop this landlord we got a tough one!

 

It seems that the guarantor has applied for a set aside and a hearing is due to take place fairly soon but the landlord can't attend, does that mean it will be set aside without question?

 

The rent is no longer owed to the landlord which has been confirmed to the court.

 

I feel that in some ways we have been bullied into paying the rent with the threat of court action held over our heads!

 

I have emailed both student and guarantor but have had not had any response. Can I send a letter before action by email or should it be sent by post, recorded?

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'I feel that in some ways we have been bullied into paying the rent with the threat of court action held over our heads!'

Unfortunately it worked!:!:

 

LBA is always a good idea, as gives defendant opportunity to settle before going to court.

dont forgt tho that garuantor may challenge validity!

 

Regarding the other garuntors action, if LL cannot attend and informed the court, more likely another date may be set.

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Thanks Ray,

 

The landlord is now pushing the students for the shortfall of the rent for May and wants them all to pay an equal split for this to the end of the tenancy, which means of course that he will have been paid in full and will have no recourse on the student that move out! I don't feel that we should pay anymore until we know the results of the set aside.

 

We (parents) will be over £3000 down and I want to issue a claim now whilst we now the errant students whereabouts, the claim being for the total amount owing under the terms of the contract.

 

I have not been well this week but plan to get the lba prepared asap and go from there

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My penny's worth....

 

With regards to the bailiff, it doesn't matter that you guys / your parents are jointly liable. If the CCJ is against the former tenants parents, then they are the only people who can be pursued with that warrant.

 

The LL will need an additional (successful) claim against the other liable parties (you and your flat-mates) to enforce against you.

 

The bailiff will of course tell you otherwise.

 

The bailiff has no business visiting an address where the debtor has known to have fled. Is his premature departure not the entire basis of the claim?

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