Virgins trains, I'm an idiot

[Idiot123]

Does anyone know a good solicitor I can speak to on this subject and who specialise in these sorts of cases?

 

Thanks

[Grotesque]

A Solicitor who does local work at your local Court would be best: a) they know the prosecutors / magistrates etc, and b) they are probablyin and out of there every day on similar cases.

Try and avoid the Peter Carter-****'s of the world, they will charge you a fortune for a posh letter that will just harden the spine of any seasoned railway prosecutor!

 

Good luck.

[Wriggler7]

One of the best ways to find an appropriate solicitor for this kind of work is to wander along to the Magistrates Court where the case might be heard. Ask the security guys to point out a local solicitor. I know many in south Essex, and I would be hard pressed to point out which one would be best.

 

Generally, look for the tired expression, avoid the man with the best suit or the best car in the car park. Don't be put off if the tired old man passes you to the 'new kid' at the office, the wiser chaps will steer him/her because they will be concerned about the reputation of their practice.

[Idiot123]

Does anyone know when I can expect to hear from the TOC? I know having read previous threads they have 6 months to respond, but is there any sort of timeframe they generally come back within or do I just have to sweat it out until I hear from them?

[Old-CodJA]

Sadly, you will have to wait, but even with the busiest TOC prosecution offices you can reasonably expect to receive your letter within 6 weeks of the date of incident. Write back as soon as you get the letter and I'll come to suggestion for that in a moment.

 

It's worth remembering that the people who have the training in identifying and dealing with ticket offences are the Rail inspectors not the Police and that is why the Police Officer took no part in dealing with it. Usually, Police only attend on request to assist in identifying a traveller or to deal with a public order issue, or more serious crime. The Police Officer may have stood by as a witness to the interview, but wouldn't normally deal with any ticket issue at all.

 

Periodically I think it worth reminding new readers of these threads what the possible outcomes are:

 

Altering a ticket isn't forgery. If you had made a fake ticket that would be a different matter.

 

Using an altered ticket may be charged as an 'attempt to avoid a fare' contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways act (1889), or as a strict liability breach of National Railways Byelaw 20.1 (2005) if you made the alteration and 20.2 as the user. In both cases the maximum penalty is a fine of up to £1000 for each offence on summary conviction.

 

If it is a first offence and you are convicted, the worst that you are likely to face (unless there are any aggravating features that we are unaware of) is a fine of around £350.00 if you are summonsed and don't respond. That's the advisory entry point in the Magistrates guidelines and is based on the assumed average weekly earnings. You might also be ordered to pay prosecution costs ( probably £100 to £150 )and compensation of any fare avoided along with a fixed 'victim surcharge' of £15.00 imposed on every person who is fined by the Magistrates.

 

The figures quoted are from my personal daily experience of seeing similar matters dealt with and cannot be relied upon as a definitive guide. If this does go to Court, entering a 'guilty' plea at the earliest opportunity will attract the maximum 'discount' and fines etc will be reduced accordingly by the Magistrates.

 

Now to look at how you might be able to avoid any Court appearance and therefore avoid a record of conviction. You might be able to avoid this by co-operating fully with the rail company once they write to you.

 

If it is a first offence, I suggest that you might write back immediately, apologising for your 'uncharacteristic and irrational act, borne of a desire to try to save money' (or your words to that effect) and offering to make good all and any reasonable costs incurred by the rail company if the matter can be settled without the need to trouble a Court, thereby protecting your good name.

 

Try explaining that a conviction for this 'one-off abberation' would have a disproportionate effect on your career and given the uncertainty of employment prospects in the current financial climate, you are asking for this to be taken into consideration.

 

Give an assurance that you will never again travel without a valid ticket and adding an apology to the company and staff concerned for the work that your actions have caused is always worthwhile

 

The TOC do not have to agree, but if they are satisfied that they are going to get back all of their costs and any unpaid fares with a minimum of work and expense, they will give it serious consideration.

 

There is nothing that you can do to expidite this until you receive their letter, but if I were you, that's what I would be preparing myself to do. Make sure that you have funds available to pay their settlement charge in one go and promptly if they do agree to your request.

 

.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Old-CodJA

[Idiot123]

Thanks

 

To give you more detail on the ticket, the old ticket was an A4 sheet of paper that I photocopied and changed the date on, so clearly from their perspective there was a clear effort made to avoid paying a fare. Secondly, just to give you full disclosure, it was for a first class ticket, I'm not sure if that is relevant or not, I suspect it will increase the size of the fine they hand out, so I am not sure if this falls under the fare avoidance as you suggested or forgery

 

In your experience, what is the likelyhood I can settle it out of court without a criminal record/caution, or does it entirely depend on who is dealing with this?

 

I'm having an aweful time dealing with this, both unable to sleep and on edge every morning when the post comes through to see who (TOC or BTP) will be dealing with this

 

One final question, will Virgin trains not automatically assume this isn't the first time I've done this and try to pursue harsher penalties?

[SRPO]

There are a number of offences that could be charged, until you get notification of the actual allegation against you this is just speculation.

[Wriggler7]

From the tone of your posts, it is easy to see that you are not an old 'jail bird', who would currently be totally unconcerned by the whole thing.

 

I agree with the idea that there are sevearl different charges that could be laid, but the probability is that the railway will stick to what it knows best, which is the 'avoid rail fare' issue.

 

Privately, they may have all manner of theories, but the only thing that counts are the matters that they can actually demonstrate.

 

Until you are contacted by them, please try to relax. Even when you do get a letter from Virgin, keep it in perspective. The issue is a train fare, not murder.

[Maximaxi]

Hi,

 

I would like to know what happened as I am now in the same situation that you was. I was caught on using my own doctored Virign e- train ticket and now am really worried about going to court and getting a criminal record.

 

1) Was you able to settle this out of court? If so how did you go about doing it and what was the result?

 

2) did you hire a lawyer to help?

 

3) if this wasn't settled out of court, what was the result in court? Ie the amount you had been ordered to pay and if it resulted in a

 

 

Please let me know what happened and how things turned out for you I'd appreciate it very much.

 

Thanks

[Old-CodJA]

Maximaxi, this thread last saw activity almost a year ago.

 

You may be lucky, the OP may look in, but I doubt that you will glean much here.

[Idiot123]

Hey

 

I got very lucky

 

Not sure what happened but I never got any correspondance letter back after the incident itself

 

I would suggest just wait and see, if they get in toug with follow up action, then ask the people on this forum what the best course of action is as they are very knowledgeable on these matters, until then, just try not to worry

[Maximaxi]

I was just trying my luck and didn't expect OP to reply but gladly seen a post here.

 

You're very lucky there, I don't think that's the case with me as 15 mins the train was due to arrive into the station, the train manager noticed something didn't seem right with my ticket. I'd already done the journey by the time they confirmed it wasn't genuine so hadn't had a valid ticket for that ride.