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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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'On-Call' / Out Of Hours


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Hi

 

I am writing this question on behalf of my better half.

 

She works for a telecommunications company and as part of her employment she is required to take possession of the works out of hours mobile phone and laptop to provide support for issues that arise out of normal working hours. Her boss says that she is only entitled to claim money for the time actually spent on the phone dealing with a fault.

 

I have read elsewhere that if you are on call at the beckon call of the business you are classed as working - is this correct? Does my girlfriend have rights to claim for money at her normal hourly rate for any time when she is classed as 'on call' regardless if the phone / laptop is being used?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Shane

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Hi Shane

 

The issue of on call time and whether it should be paid has received lots of judicial attention - there is lots of guidance on the web if you google 'on call time and the national minimum wage' this may well be where you have read that being on call = working time.

 

see for example guidance here - http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1081685821&type=RESOURCES

 

Certainly there have been cases where on-call time has = working time for the purposes of the NMW (BNA v Inland Revenue 2002) http://www.thompsons.law.co.uk/ltext/l1250005.htm BUT exclusions do exist whch could apply if the worker spends the om-call time at home - i will check this point further

 

I suppose by analogy this potentially supports an argument that it is 'working time' in respect of contractual remuneration??

 

How much is she paid? How does the contract say her wages are worked out e.g. per hour rate, annual salary etc?

 

Her case will probably be weaker the longer she has been doing this (assuming NMW compliance), because she has in effect 'accepted' this.

 

How long has she been doing this?

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Hi Elche

 

Thanks so much for your posts - really, really helpful.

 

She is on an annual salary contract and is paid approx £18k which is paid on 25th day of each month in equal payments. Hope this bit assists?

 

She has been in the job approximately 2 years and touch wood is on the verge of moving (interview tomorrow) however every worker in the office at one point or another has complained about having to do this work without being paid properly. The company in question have lost a lot of staff recently and have not replaced them so it makes the 'on-call' responsibility come around much quicker.

 

Take this weekend for example; 9am and one of her customers develops a serious fault on a line and despite not being on the phone / laptop all weekend my GF was monitoring the status of the repair and had to keep in regular contact with the customer throughout so it has once again taken over her weekend. According to her boss she is only entitled to claim money for the time spent on the phone and most of the time this is quite minimal however she is not free to do anything socially because of the nature of her work means she needs to be near a PC when an out of hours telephone call is received so she can log the fault etc.

 

If she wanted to escalate this dispute what process would she have to adopt? I have thought about writing a letter on her behalf but i wanted to check that i was on the right track before doing so.

 

I appreciate your help.

 

Shane

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If she wanted to escalate this dispute what process would she have to adopt? I have thought about writing a letter on her behalf but i wanted to check that i was on the right track before doing so.

 

Hi Shane,

 

There are definitely 2 potential issues.

 

1) I don't think that it would be viewed as 'working time' for NMW regs as she is at home - it will probably just be time actually spent on the phone - BUT -

 

2) I think all the time spent on call might = working time for the purposes of the WTR 1998. Thus not only is she potentially not receiving sufficient break between shifts she may also be exceeding the 48 hour week.

 

If she wanted to escalate this and make it formal then he first step would be to draft a grievance letter. You may well find that there is a grievance procedure outlined in the employee handbook.

 

Basically you would highlight how the nature of this on-call work has changed i.e. increased, that you do not feel it is fairly remunerated and also want to know do the company agree that this time is 'working time' for the purposes of the WTR 1998?

 

Obvioulsy you should get a grievance meeting then to discuss. Of course once you make a complaint formal at work itcan sour relations.

 

Can they group together i.e. all employees affected by the on-call time, and complain?

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Hi I am now retired but when working I would for 1 week (7 nights) in every 8 weeks be on call from 4am till 9am to cover for a company that did their accounts and computer backup during these hours. The company I worked for paid £25 for each night on call (just for being on call for the company being covered) and if a problem occurred then they paid the £25 plus normal hourly rate from time of call to till 9am.

 

The reason they paid the £25 was they reasoned that I would not be able to drink on the evening prior to being on call as it was possible that I may have had to drive the 100 odd miles to the company involved to fix a problem if not able to fix the problem online.

 

dpick

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