County Court Claim form received - Cabot ***WON***

[Brassed off]

Bit rusty due to CAG absence of a fair few months but have received a County Court Claim form Northampton CCBC and don't really know where to start.

 

I've got all the paperwork out and am slowly trawling through it all!

 

Any/all help gratefully received - just let me know what info you need

 

TIA

 

Bo

[Brassed off]

Debt from 1999 (not SB sadly!)

 

Agreement probably enforceable but lots of interest and charges on - default notice, erm will have to keep trawling through paperwork!

 

Not done CPR, only got the claim form today!

 

Got an up to date CPR by any chance?

 

Told you I was rusty

 

Finally found the old thread - it was three years ago!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/95565-me-cabot-financial.html

[Brassed off]

Bleedin' eck Bo.... your last post on this was 2007!!!

 

Is this your first contact from them since then?

 

Oi, how did you get in before I posted LMAO ?? Rusty is not good

 

I had a few letters and just filed them on the "ignore" pile

 

I did get a solicitors letter but just told them the account was still in dispute.

 

I got a different solicitors letter over a month ago but didn't get round to replying - my own fault I'm afraid

[Brassed off]

Thanks AC. I'll do the CPR 31.14 today

 

The CC claim form is much the same as most stating that Cabot are the Assignee of the debt from the OC. Notice of Assignment having been given to the Defendant in writing. They are saying that despite demand for payment, £XXXX remains due and are claiming interest under S 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 and costs.

 

Can't post up as scanner has packed in!

Edited July 18, 2010 by Brassed off
Missed out the NOA bit sorry !

[Brassed off]

Interesting Fuzzy thanks - will have to check that.

 

Have been so busy today and am out tonight. I have a fairly up to date CPR 31.14 so will post up later this evening.

 

This account has been in dispute for the last three years and I never received the requested info from the OC but I didn't chase it I'm afraid. In fact, it was so long ago, I totally forgot about it!

 

I'll check out the CPR before I post it up P1 but that sounds good to me ta

[Brassed off]

Thanks HS

 

Will add it to this CPR 31.14 (pinched from 42Man!)

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

 

Obviously I need to edit this and add the paragraph by HS.

 

I need to submit an acknowledgement to the claim form on line but am unsure as to whether I am going to defend all of the claim or not. Depends what response I receive from Cabots.

 

I know I have 14 days - is that calendar days?

 

Can I wait to see what response I receive before replying?

 

Sorry, I've not had time to read everything through thoroughly yet.

[Brassed off]

Thanks Cerberus - looks like you're on "moving" duties tonight

[Brassed off]

I am just editing the CPR 31.14 to suit and have just re-read the POC from Cabot. They mention nothing about an Agreement. Just the NOA and the fact that they are claiming XXXXXX and interest under S69 of the County Courts Act and costs.

 

Surely if the claim is based on an Agreement, then they do need to provide the Agreement and mention it in their POC or attach it when the claim is served and they will also need the original Agreement in court according to CPR 31.14. No copy of the Agreement was served with the court docs and there is no mention of it in the POC. Presumably, I leave in the paragraph about this even though it's not mentioned in the POC?

Edited July 18, 2010 by Brassed off

[Brassed off]

Bump !

[Brassed off]

42 that looks far better to me thanks. Will edit to suit and hopefully post up tomorrow night, need to get a move on with this - tricky at the moment as very busy!

[Brassed off]

I've edited to suit and it was all straightforward so no need to post it up.

 

Will get it off Special Delivery tomorrow thanks

[Brassed off]

My Defence is due at court this Tuesday and I was about to put together an embarrassed Defence tonight but have got home to a pile of paperwork from Morgans.

 

As my scanner's bust, I will have to type up what their covering letter says:-

 

We write further to your letter of ....

 

The Claimant was not required to attach a copy of the Credit Agreement to the ClaimForm for the reasons detailed at Practice Direction 7C 1.4 (3A). This provision stipulates that "the requirement in Paragraph 7.3 of Practice Direction 16 for documents to be attached to the particulars of the contract does not apply to claims to be issued by the Centre, unless the particulars of claim are served separately in accordance with paragraph 5.2 of this practice direction". Notwithstanding this, a copy of the Credit Agreement is enclosed herewith for your information. A copy of the Terms and Conditions applicable to your account have been requested from the Assignor and will be forwarded to you in due course.

 

In respect of your request for a copy of the Deed of Assignment, we enclose herewith redacted copies of the Account Sale Agreement and Offer Letter. The Agreement and Offer Letter are redacted to preserve commercial sensitive information.

 

On Assignment of a debt, the Assignor provides information regarding the accounts subject to the assignment. Enclosed herewith is an extract of the 'raw data' provided to the Claimant by the Assignor on Assignment and shows your account as subject to the Assignment.

 

In respect of Paragraph 3 of your letter, the Claimant submits that neither the respective Assignor nor the Claimant was required to send a Default Notice to you prior to the issue of proceedings in this matter. It is submitted that the Assignor or Claimant would only be required to send such a Notice under Section 87 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 if the Claimant wished to:

 

(i) terminate the agreement;

(ii) demand earlier repayment of any sum;

(iii) recover possession of any goods or land;

(iv) treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred; or;

(v) enforce any security

 

As the Claimant does not wish to take any steps listed in Section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, neither the Claimant nor the Assignor was required to send a Default Notice under that Section or at all. The sums claimed by the Claimant as Assignee relate to arrears only.

 

In relation to Paragraphs 4 and 7 of your letter, we can confirm that the Claim is subject to interest. We enclose herewith a copy of the Claimant's Statement of Account, wherein it shows that interest has been applied at 12% per annum from xxxxxx 2003 and xxxxxx 2010 in the sum of £XXXXXX. We have requested Statements of Account from the Assignor for the period prior to Assignment and will forward these in due course.

 

In response to paragraph 8 of your letter, interest will be claimed in accordance with Section 69 of the County Court Act from July 2010 (the date of issue) until the date of the final hearing.

 

We trust that this assists you. We now look forward to you contacting us with a view to clearing your Account balance. You are invited to contact our office on XXXXX XXXXXX in order to discuss the matter and to provide details of your proposals for repayment.

 

Yours faithfully

 

All comments gratefully received

 

Just going to go and look through all the photocopies with it (there's shedloads!)

[Brassed off]

Hi FT

 

Yes, there is a photocopied Agreement enclosed (para 2) but no T&Cs which they say they are waiting for but I see you've spotted that they are only chasing me for the arrears.

 

 

And their last paragraph is asking me to ring them

[Brassed off]

So the Agreement is terminated anyway if there are no T&Cs? Is that right? Do I write back to Morgans or just submit an embarrassed Defence to the Court? Any ideas where I go from here anyone?

[Brassed off]

They are claiming arrears only, but the last paragraph asks for proposals to pay the Account Balance - Freudulent slip, or is this a notice of termination?

 

Perhaps they're just wondering if I'll notice ! But no T&C's and asking me to ring? I bet they didn't send a copy of that letter to the court!

 

I haven't seen what they've sent, but I'd say that an embarrassed defence is still relevant - what they seem to have sent isn't enough to bring a claim on, so the embarrassed defence still stands.

 

You'll need to work through it, line by line, now they've responded, though, so it makes sense.

 

Plenty of time before Tuesday

 

Any idea where I can find an embarrassed Defence to edit? It has to be at NCCBC by Tuesday and I'm really not sure where to start. I don't understand all the legal jargon so not sure what I should be quoting.

 

I can list what they've sent if that helps? There are quite a few bits of copied stuff which is just illegible.

[Brassed off]

Hi everyone

 

Thanks for your input

 

I e-mailed Morgan's but didn't get a reply. Car, as it's going to be very tight to get something together for Monday, perhaps I could make an application to the court for more time? Obviously, I would have to do this on Monday but to be honest, I can't see it being a problem. Morgans really have left it very late and aren't responding to my e-mail. What do you suggest?

 

Cymru, if you look at Mr Blue's post #30, I did get an Agreement which is filled in even though they state they don't have to provide it (it didn't mention Agreement in the POC). There was a blank agreement in with all the photocopied stuff behind though.

[Brassed off]

What is your defence, then?

Not sure how much to post up on here so will PM you when I work out how to do it! Sorry the new forum software is throwing me slightly!

[Brassed off]

Hi Robin

 

I sent the combined CPR 31.12 and 16.4 (2) which 42man posted the link to in post #19.

 

I agree though, they have left it far too late to provide documentary evidence and there are no T&Cs (well there is something that resembles T&Cs but is totally unreadable). I have a lot of paperwork to go through this weekend before I would be anywhere near in a position to even attempt a Defence.

 

If I can't get in touch with Morgans on Monday or they don't reply to my email, then I will have to contact the court and make an application for an extension of time.

[Brassed off]

I can provide a copy of my email today but I agree, a letter would be better. I'm taking my printer/scanner in to the repairers tomorrow and if I get it fixed in time, I will type up a letter to Morgans and get it sent off tomorrow.

 

I get your point ;-)

[Brassed off]

Printer totally bust I'm afraid but I can get a letter printed off tomorrow at friends.

 

Anyone know how I apply for an extension of time if I can't get hold of Morgans on Monday? I work full time so it's going to be tricky.

 

I've been reading quite a few Cabot court threads and it seems that they do say that they are claiming the arrears only. But if the Agreement is terminated on assignation, how can they claim arrears and interest unless it's an Absolute Assignment?

[Brassed off]

Hi gh

 

I replied to your post earlier but it's disappeared !

 

No I don't get monthly statements from anyone. I've never seen the T&Cs either. Cabot have been sending their usual "cough up or else" letters though!

 

The Assignment is not Absolute as they are going back to the OC for a SOA and T&Cs. They've said that in the letter from Morgans posted earlier.

 

This is a loan agreement not a credit agreement.

[Brassed off]

I was going to edit but I can't

 

It is a fixed Credit Agreement so CCA still applies !

[Brassed off]

You say the assignment is not an absolute assignment, therefore it must be an equitable assignment. Has the OC joined Cabot in the claim because if not cabot cannot bring the claim alone

R

 

Hi Robin, no, I've not had anything from the OC at all. How do I prove that Cabot cannot bring the claim alone?

 

Agree with RWR - that's what my point was leading to.

 

Check out S86© and S86(d) I think for non-compliance.

 

Will go and read it now thanks!

[Brassed off]

Cheers gh, will go and have a look for the correct wording unless someone else has it handy!

 

Hi P1, I have a copy of the Account Sale Agreement between the OC and Cabot and it is an agreement which was bought in bulk. From looking through (inbetween everything that's been blacked out!), it is definitely just an assignment. I notice that there are blank copies of the OC's CCA agreements but they are nothing like the original agreement and must be more up to date ones.

[Brassed off]

I have a photocopy of the agreement which I should be able to post up at some point this week gh