Suspended for Gross Misconduct. Meeting with Investigating officer tomorrow. HELP please

[honeybee13]

Go for it, Goldie, good luck to you and your colleagues.

 

HB x

[goldie66]

Hello again

 

I've just spoken to J who has been given witness statements via her TU rep. The statements are from the 'offending' manager and her part time counterpart. The statements make allegations against J. They state that they were both 'in fear of J who has been subjecting them to bullying and harassment over a period of time??! Both of these managers are 2 grades above J and at J's appraisal, (the week before these statements were made) she was given a glowing end of year report.

 

I think the statements have been made to justify the monitoring of J's emails but I'm finding the whole thing confusing!

 

Is it just me or would anyone else assume that if 2 managers were being 'bullied and harassed' by an underling they would have taken immediate action rather than launch an investigation? J has never had any warnings regarding her conduct.

 

Totally baffled, any comments/observations please?

[honeybee13]

Hi, I agree this is confusing. I will leave the legal aspects to the others, but I have a comment.

 

Bullies are very prone to turning themselves into 'victims' at will, once they're challenged. To see if I'm right or not, have a look at bullyonline.org. It gives you case studies and incidences of bullying behaviour.

 

Of course, if you are being bullied, there are HSE guidelines that show an employer has a duty of care not to let staff be bullied or harassed. At the risk of opening a can of worms, does work have an anti-bullying policy you can lay your hands on?

 

HB x

Edited June 10, 2010 by honeybee13
clarity.

[goldie66]

It does indeed have a zero tolerance for bullying which is covered by the Dignity at Work code of practice-the one that I got caught up in! It said I MUST support any bullied colleague BUT also stated I must not undermine anyone's position!!

 

Hopefully someone with legal know how will visit soon! I will check out the web page you suggested!

 

Thanks again HB

 

G66x

[honeybee13]

Logic would say they can't have it both ways, but let's wait for some comments.

 

HB x

[mariefab]

This may sound like a conspiracy theory but...

 

Do you suppose that it's possible that the accusations of bullying from the manager and part-timer have been made in the hope that they can get rid of J before a sexual harrassment claim is made by J and/or to discourage any of the other staff who have complained about this behaviour from taking it further?

 

After all any sign of sexual harrassment should be taken very seriously by any employer and when it was reported to the manager and subsequently to HR no action appears to have taken by either of them.

 

It would be interesting to know from what date J's emails were monitored and the dates on the witness statements accusing her of bullying.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I've just re-read some of your posts and I think this sounds rather a 'sick' company. Is there a culture of bullying, would you say? I as because you say HR referred a problem straight back to a manager, which I've seen before when the manager has been a control freak.

 

Sadly, we see many instances here of HR not doing what you might reasonably expect of them, but they're normally on the side of the company.

 

If your union rep is OK as you say, is s/he aware of what's going on?

 

I see you mentioned whistleblowing and can't see an answer having been posted to that. I'm not sure it would apply in this case at the moment. It's normally for illegal practices at the company, including breaches of health and safety rules.

 

Again, you could look at the HSE and directgov websites for whistleblowing.

 

Are you in touch with the colleagues who are 'up before the beak' on Monday and is this information helping please?

 

HB x

[goldie66]

Hi again

In response to mariefab's question, J's emails were monitored due to a request by manager on 25/05/10, the offending emails date back to the end of March. The witness statements are dated 06/06/10 and they seem merely to support the original request to have emails monitored because of her behaviour. The statements talk about their 'distress and alarm' having discovered the content of J's emails. It's clearly been a 'fishing expedition'-make a complaint with no evidence and then try to find some.

 

Both statements are clear in the fact that they 'were not shown the emails but have viewed some of them and are aware of the content'-how can this happen???

 

J's emails are pretty offensive and I think her best defence is to follow the ACAS bullying leaflet which talks about victims behaving in an uncharacteristic fashion? Any observation or ideas on this are welcome??

 

I think it is a conspiracy-they have pre-empted J's complaint. I'm not sure about the sexual harassment angle as nothing was recorded and I'd imagine a flat denial on that one.

 

HB There are about 460 employees so I'd imagine there will be bullying BUT the team J's in (and which I used to work in)there is a definite bullying culture due to the 'management style'. For instance when I worked there I had a team member who was due to retire-she was quite a difficult lady to deal with and when I asked manager for help she told me not to bother because she was retiring soon. When offending manager had a direct problem with this person she shouted at me and asked 'what are you doing about G?' I pointed out that I'd been seeking advice from her for 3 months and had been told to leave her alone as she'd be leaving soon. I was then advised to 'micro manage' G which consisted of asking G what she was working on every ten minutes and to shout out, in front of staff, 'G do you know what you're doing? Do you need me to come and sit with you?'. I told manager that was not my style and I didn't feel capable of working like that-I left work early in tears that day!

 

I am in touch with my colleagues, J is coming round tomo to try and work out her defence strategy.

 

As always, thanks for all the help.

 

G66 x

[honeybee13]

'Both statements are clear in the fact that they 'were not shown the emails but have viewed some of them and are aware of the content'-how can this happen???'

 

Beats me, isn't that a self-contradiction within one sentence?

 

HB x

[goldie66]

I think the statements were indeed deliberately shown to the manager by her HR friend. Part of the bullying/harassment code of conduct at work expressly states that there is an 'intention to upset the email recipient'. Had the managers NOT been privy to the email content they could NOT claim to have been distressed by them! This seem such strange situation-am I correct in thinking that any logical minded person, unconnected to events, would be able to view this for what it is?

Thanks

G66

[Allwood]

I would just say that you were told that the manager parents were unwed and you were using the correct terminology as in the dictionary . Not sure that is helpful or not. What was the other word does it start with an 'F'

[goldie66]

Thanks Allwood! I did consider that as my defence (briefly) however it doesn't really fit in with the rest of the email. In my response to J's initial email I have started it with the word Bastards but it's clear that I have used it as an expletive rather than an insult-someone else may say dammit! Bastards is what I shout when I stub my toe or my washing machine breaks.

 

There was no use of the F word at all. I didn't even use what I thought I had in my first post which began with an S! I said 'she is THE worst manager I have ever had and a nasty lazy person'.

 

Not as bad as what I could have said . . . . . .?

[Allwood]

You could apologize profusely and say that you were in a big hurry and was composing the email quickly in very bad light and did not realized that you had put that in the email, it have read batter ‘F’ test.

[Allwood]

The company should be grateful for you for bringing this woman bad management to their attention. If fact, she should be sent on a couse on how to manager and gain some people skills. She sounds nasty and it is no joke working with someone like her. Does not do the company any favours or her colleagues.

[goldie66]

I totally agree Allwood! She's been getting away with it for years!

[mariefab]

J's emails were monitored due to a request by manager on 25/05/10, the offending emails date back to the end of March. The witness statements are dated 06/06/10 and they seem merely to support the original request to have emails monitored because of her behaviour.

 

Tut tut tut....this may turn out to be a very long thread that will be useful to J as well as you. I suggest that J becomes a member of CAG so that she can also post on this thread.

 

So, J complains to her line manager about the sexual harassment that she has been subjected to in the workplace. The manager takes no action.

 

J then raises the sexual harassment with a member of HR staff who takes no action other than to tell her to speak to the manager.

 

Then on 25/05 the manager requests that J's emails are monitored.

 

On 06/06 statements alleging bullying by J are produced.

 

The manager will probably say that she asked for the emails to be monitored to see if there was any evidence of bullying in them.

 

But from what you say it's more likely that HR informed the manger of J's complaint of sexual harassment and the allegation of bullying was trumped up as a method of getting rid of a potential troublemaker.

 

You got caught in the crossfire so you were dealt with first. Your actions could be seen to be supporting J so by taking action against you it's possible that it was hoped that it would discorage other members of staff from subsequently supporting her too. If they try to take any further action against you, you could state that you believe this is the true reason for it.

 

There isn't much in the way of legislation protecting employees from bullying in the workplace. However, there is plenty protecting employees from sexual harassmnent, discrimination and victimisation. For example The Sex Discrimination Act, see in particular sections 4, 4A and 6(2)(2A)(2B)(2C) & (2D).

 

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/sex_discrimination_act_1975.pdf

 

J should present a written grievance at the start of her meeting on Monday.

I would suggest that her approach needs to be that the action being taken against her is in punishment for complaining of sexual harassment in the workplace to her manager and to HR.

 

She needs to gather every bit of evidence that she can in this regard to include in her grievance. (It may be a very busy weekend.)

Start with a timeline. When the incidents of sexual harassments occurred, details of the incidents, when it was reported and to whom etc.

 

If there were any witnesses to J reporting the harassment or if she told someone before or after speaking to either the manager or HR she needs to try to get statements from those members of staff.

Also collect statements from any members of staff who have complained about sexual harassment in the past.

 

Make at least 3 copies of everything in the Grievance.

 

 

.

[honeybee13]

'I think the statements were indeed deliberately shown to the manager by her HR friend. Part of the bullying/harassment code of conduct at work expressly states that there is an 'intention to upset the email recipient'. Had the managers NOT been privy to the email content they could NOT claim to have been distressed by them! This seem such strange situation-am I correct in thinking that any logical minded person, unconnected to events, would be able to view this for what it is?'

 

For what it's worth, I agree. Remind, me, did this one go to the IT forum? If not, you might want to put just this part of your question, rephrased a bit, to them. They're great guys.

 

Don't copy and paste a whole post, could get you in trouble with the site team for duplicate threads.

 

HB x

[goldie66]

Thanks Mariefab, very helpful. The problem is, as we are suspended from work, we are not allowed to make any contact whatsoever with any colleagues which makes evidence gathering in support of J impossible. Any contact would be deemed as 'witness interference' and I think that would seriously undermine our position. I will speak to my union rep-I believe he could probably speak to any witnesses.

 

HB I haven't posted anything on the IT forum-wouldn't know how to start . . ! Should I simply start a new thread asking specific IT related 'charges' made against us?

 

Thanks

G66x

[honeybee13]

Hi there. Do you want to PM me with what you think are the issues on IT? Then we'll work out something to send. I was thinking mainly of insisting on viewing emails and then being offended. Otherwise, if you think there's a particular post that sums it up, you or I could send a link to them.

 

Looks as if you won't be seeing much of the football.

 

HB x

[goldie66]

Ha ha! I've been told I'll be off for at least 6 months-at least it's not January . . . .!

 

I will try to PM . . X

[honeybee13]

Goldie, I'm still watching. If you have trouble doing a PM, holler, but if you click on my username, you should get through to a screen, if I remember rightly. HB

[goldie66]

Nope! Completely stumped re PM thing. . . .

 

IT issues:

 

1. Can a personal email be deemed as offensive if it it viewed (without authorisation) by the person discussed in the email?

 

2. The personal emails were not sent with any intention to offend.

 

3. The email recipient did not find the email offensive.

 

4. In my staff handbook, an email can be offensive if it contains 'libellous, defamatory, obscene or untrue statements'. The content of the email discussed a manager who was actively bullying the email sender at the time.

 

5. The manager authorised the monitoring of the victim's emails and was subsequently shown them by HR (they were doing the monitoring). On viewing the emails the manager felt distressed and offended.

 

Do you think this is clear enough and covers everything needed?

 

Thanks again HB

G66x

[Allwood]

Ha ha! I've been told I'll be off for at least 6 months-at least it's not January . . . .!

 

I will try to PM . . X

 

Six months is a long time hopefully you are being paid for that lenght of time. If you are you should try and set up your own business this would be an ideal time to do this. You never know, maybe this company will go out of business within six months with so many bad manager there and with the current financial climite it is a possibility and you will be left high and dry.

[mariefab]

It would be manifestly unjust for your employer to prevent you or J from being able to gather any evidence that could be used in defense of the accusations.

They may be able to prevent you from contacting other staff while they are at the workplace. But outside of working hours they have no say in the matter.

 

Anyway the evidence that J needs to gather will be used for a Grievance not a disciplinary. Even though it would be presented at the start of a disciplinary hearing a Grievance is a seperate process requiring it's own separate hearing.

Have a look at page 21 in the link below.

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1043

 

I would say that upon presentation of the Grievance the disciplinary should be adjorned on probably 3 of the 4 grounds stated.

[honeybee13]

Goldie, I will send a copy and paste of what you said to the IT guys, plus anything I can add from a quick skim of your thread. I'll come back later with a PM tutorial.

 

HB x