Kingston Eden Street Bus Lanes

[HYMN AND MI]

Just sit tight and get back when you do hear! They are now taking legal advice.

[DavidWilkins]

Suppose the legal advice is along the lines of: Just go for it- send out £130 demands to all pending cases, get as much cash in as possible, don't spend money on chasing non-payers, but for heaven's sake sort your procedures out.

 

If the appeal period/"discount" is voluntary and PATAS rulings on one case not binding on another, RBK might be able to save face & maximise revenue & take the opportunity to start again. Some people will just pay up through ignorance/intimidation. There are bigger brains than mine on this forum- would it be useful to think through possible responses to different scenarios so that unequivocal and consistent advice can be given to people trapped by this crazy system?

 

 

D

[green_and_mean]

I would like to know if they are still enforcing the second half past Heals a few people at the start of the thread got PCNs there but there seem to be no recent ones. That part of the bus lane is non enforceable for numerous reasons.

[Rachel_2011]

Hi all

 

I have just completed appeal letters for 2 PCNs that I received for apparantly contravening the questionable bus lane in Eden Street. The first PCN was for the 3rd September and the second was for the 11th September, just 9 days later! I do not know the area so was totally unaware that I had committed an offence. I requested image documentation which shows I am travelling behind a double decker bus which obstructs my view from all road signs (these are questionably) and any road surgace markings as the bus was directly over these when I entered the crossroads. Unfortunately the first PCN did not arrive until after I had entered the road for a second time 9 days later.

 

I would never knowingly contravene a bus lane and I would most certainly never knowingly contravene a bus lane for a second time just 9 days later.

 

I am hoping my appeal letters are accepted as this has to be one of the most unclear bus lanes I have ever known. It is a joke.

[green_and_mean]

Hi all

 

I have just completed appeal letters for 2 PCNs that I received for apparantly contravening the questionable bus lane in Eden Street. The first PCN was for the 3rd September and the second was for the 11th September, just 9 days later! I do not know the area so was totally unaware that I had committed an offence. I requested image documentation which shows I am travelling behind a double decker bus which obstructs my view from all road signs (these are questionably) and any road surgace markings as the bus was directly over these when I entered the crossroads. Unfortunately the first PCN did not arrive until after I had entered the road for a second time 9 days later.

 

I would never knowingly contravene a bus lane and I would most certainly never knowingly contravene a bus lane for a second time just 9 days later.

 

I am hoping my appeal letters are accepted as this has to be one of the most unclear bus lanes I have ever known. It is a joke.

 

 

Lets us know how you get on.

[green_and_mean]

Case Reference:2110276103Appellant:Mr Kevin GrangerAuthority:Kingston Upon ThamesVRM:RJ10ESGPCN:KT55400629Contravention Date:16 Dec 2010Contravention Time:16:26Contravention Location:Eden StreetPenalty Amount:£120.00Contravention:Being in a bus laneDecision Date:21 Sep 2011Adjudicator:Alastair McFarlaneAppeal Decision:AllowedDirection:cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Enforcement Notice.Reasons:Mr. Granger appeared on behalf of his wife, who was the driver and owner of the vehicle.

 

The Enforcement Authority's case is that Mrs. Granger drove her vehicle along a bus lane in Eden Street on Thursday 16 th December 2010, which was prohibited.

 

Mr. and Mrs. Granger are residents of Kingston and Mrs. Granger knows the bus lane restriction in Eden Street well. She has consistently maintained that the bus lane sign had its cover over at the time and therefore she relied on this as indicating that the bus lane was not in operation.

 

The Enforcement Authority accept that there is an ability to cover the sign - which is to allow the road to be used by all traffic, when this is necessary at the request of the police.

 

Mr. Granger contends that there was a problem with the catch securing this cover and that this was acknowledged by the Enforcement Authority's staff in phone calls.

 

I have considered the CCTV evidence and this does not show the state of the sign at the time. I accept Mrs. Granger's account as truthful and therefore I find there was no contravention as the sign was covered at the material time.

 

Accordingly this appeal is allowed.

[HYMN AND MI]

I have considered the CCTV evidence and this does not show the state of the sign at the time.

 

Yet another example of the Council failing to provide reliable and proper evidence. The bus lane is closed at the moment for roadworks.

[green_and_mean]

I have considered the CCTV evidence and this does not show the state of the sign at the time.

 

Yet another example of the Council failing to provide reliable and proper evidence. The bus lane is closed at the moment for roadworks.

 

Was that you I heard making a racquet in the Market place the other day?

[HYMN AND MI]

If you paid me, I will respond! Course it was! I was making the racquet for a certain "Tobermory" in Wimbledon.

Edited October 11, 2011 by HYMN AND MI

[HYMN AND MI]

I happened to walk by the inception of the Bus Lane today - they have dug it up for some weeks, to do with gas works. Anyway, they have now added the correct legend to the road - 1048.4 - to include Bus, Taxi, Cycle Lane. (Before anyone asks, the "&" may be omitted according to the regulations.) Of course, it's still impossible to read the word "Bus" as it is painted on a downward slope on approach and, most probably, other issues will still remain on which to fight.

 

All this must be as a result of the adjudicator visiting the location?

[green_and_mean]

I happened to walk by the inception of the Bus Lane today - they have dug it up for some weeks, to do with gas works. Anyway, they have now added the correct legend to the road - 1048.4 - to include Bus, Taxi, Cycle Lane. (Before anyone asks, the "&" may be omitted according to the regulations.) Of course, it's still impossible to read the word "Bus" as it is painted on a downward slope on approach and, most probably, other issues will still remain on which to fight.

 

All this must be as a result of the adjudicator visiting the location?

 

Do you know if the second half past Heals is being enforced, there were a few tickets at the start but not heard of any since?

[HYMN AND MI]

RBK wrote a long time ago (a year?) saying that they do not enforce that part of Eden Street! Strange, as we have seen at least one PCN on this forum, I seem to remember, to do with the right turn out of Ladybooth Road.

[green_and_mean]

RBK wrote a long time ago (a year?) saying that they do not enforce that part of Eden Street! Strange, as we have seen at least one PCN on this forum, I seem to remember, to do with the right turn out of Ladybooth Road.

 

Yeah that was the only one I'd seen to, it seems odd they don't bother doing that and Brook street.

[HYMN AND MI]

The extension of restrictions for the rest of Eden Street is incongruous because, technically, or on the face of it, there is no bus lane there. I am guessing the reason for the blue rondel signs as you turn left at the mini roundabout is merely as a result of no other traffic except buses, taxis and cycles being allowed to even reach that point from either Eden Street contraflow or Brook Street. Also, I expect they would have to put cameras up at Brook Street entrance; however, the signage on the road is still wrong there, too! Maybe we can ask for the TMO!? No matter, I was out there last summer taking pictures and received a few stares from a couple of coppers. Indeed, I had a chat with a particular grumpy one a few months ago about the signage and the recent Houghton decision and all he had to say was he had the power to give tickets for people going down the bus lane through the No Entry sign! Think he had the wrong end of the stick.

[green_and_mean]

They told me Brook street was enforced by the plod ie not enforced at all! Which seems curious when all they had to do was re write the TMO and call it a bus lane like they did outside Maplins.

[HYMN AND MI]

They wrote to me in same terms. Is there a TMO for Brook Street? If so, is it a lane or a gate?

[green_and_mean]

I happened to walk by the inception of the Bus Lane today - they have dug it up for some weeks, to do with gas works. Anyway, they have now added the correct legend to the road - 1048.4 - to include Bus, Taxi, Cycle Lane. (Before anyone asks, the "&" may be omitted according to the regulations.) Of course, it's still impossible to read the word "Bus" as it is painted on a downward slope on approach and, most probably, other issues will still remain on which to fight.

 

All this must be as a result of the adjudicator visiting the location?

 

Went shopping in Kinston today and say the new legend on the road, its so bad its comical if you approach the speed hump the 'bus' bit is totally hidden and it looks like a 'taxi lane'.

[womblefox]

Hi,

 

I've just received a PCN for this Eden Street Bus Lane - I'm totally outraged. I'm a driver that has NEVER had a PCN or and points before. I'm a regular cyclist and fully agree with sectioning off parts of the road and I'm happy to comply with any road enforcement for valid reasons. However this junctions is a joke in regards to markings. VERY unclear and no prior warning that you can;t drive ahead and HAVE to go right. It's clear revenue generation and NOT traffic policy. I fully feel this is fraud, criminal plain and simple.

 

Has anyone recently got one of the PCN's overturned? what do i need to do? I will take this to the highest court in the land!

[green_and_mean]

Has anyone recently got one of the PCN's overturned?

 

Try reading the entire thread!

[sailor sam]

Hi Womblefox and welcome to CAG.

 

Well i've just a quick look on Street vIew to remind myself of the layout ect and from what I see there is plenty of grounds for appeal due to lack of adequate signage/road markings. God knows how a stranger to the area would know which way to go. The no left turn for example just before the bus lane would be on my mind rather than the restriction ahead as there dosn't appear to be any advanced warning of the alternative route ect.

[HYMN AND MI]

The up to date signage is more in line with the law. Things to do immediately are to require:

 

1. Copies of all photographic evidence.

2. Appointment to view the video evidence - all of it, which must clearly show the signage in place on the day.

3. Copy of the new authorisation from the Department for Transport re the signage, any changed diagrams and/or plans.

 

Even though the signage on the road is more correct, the relative positioning with the pole sign is, arguably, not correct. Apologies re my previous post re "AND" and "&": I meant these are interchangeable, not may be omitted. In this case, "AND" is omitted on the road and, as said before, the "BUS" is illegible as it is written on the downward slope in the road. The "AND" omission may well be de minimis (minor); but, let's see what the authorisation states - you can get this direct from the DfT :

 

traffic.signs@dft.gsi.gov.uk

 

See decision as posted: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?260892-Kingston-Eden-Street-Bus-Lanes&p=3505185&viewfull=1#post3505185

 

Even though the legend/signage on the road has been changed there are other arguments to be used and quoted.

Edited January 20, 2012 by HYMN AND MI

[DavidWilkins]

I would still like an answer to a very simple question:

 

If buses, taxis, cycles & motorbikes can go down this ?100 yard section of road with impunity, how would it compromise the flow of traffic in Greater London if cars, vans & lorries could do so too?

 

David

[HYMN AND MI]

I would still like an answer to a very simple question:

 

If buses, taxis, cycles & motorbikes can go down this ?100 yard section of road with impunity, how would it compromise the flow of traffic in Greater London if cars, vans & lorries could do so too?

 

David

 

I would direct this at RBK boffins i.e. those who drafted the TMO.

[DavidWilkins]

I wouldn't waste my time!

 

D

[HYMN AND MI]

I wouldn't waste my time!

 

D

 

The barbed point I was trying to make was, courtesy of g and m, the original TMO has not been altered/amended to allow drivers to board and alight and/or load or unload.