Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Blemain finance


dax
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2323 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 421
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Midge:

A secured loan is a mortgage as far as I am aware. The definition of mortgage in the Oxford Law Dictionary : an agreement which involves lending money using property as security:'Principal or First Mortgage' main mortgage where deeds are deposited with the lender as security.'Puisine mortgage' any other charge or loan against the property where the property is offered as security but the deeds have not been deposited with the lender.

 

So I think the FSA ruling equally applies to secured loans and its just a name thing really.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they're more than prepared to send the breakdown of figures ONLY to those who DIDN'T take out PPI!:mad:

 

From what we have on the thread, they've refused to communicate with most claimants......after all, they won't put out their dirty linen without a fight!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Missy,

 

Rule of 78 : Payments not yet due (Payments Not yet due+1)

Total Number Payments (total Number Payments due+1)

 

X Total charge for Credit = Rebate

 

therefore: Total Charge for Credit - Rebate Due = Amount to pay + or -

 

So in order to work it out will need the following :

 

1. Term of loan.

2. Monthly repayment amount.

3. Total Charge for credit (as stated on the agreement).

 

This will give the redemption figure not that it is any use really: as I understand it it is up to you to show that irrespective of whether they've calculated the figure correctly or not, that whatever the figure is, it amounts to more than their actual loss.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Greedfighter,

 

thanks for the feedback.

 

You said ".....the redemption figure not that it is any use really: as I understand it it is up to you to show that irrespective of whether they've calculated the figure correctly or not, that whatever the figure is, it amounts to more than their actual loss."

 

I'll do a bit of digging but have you come across any CAGERS who've actually been able to do this and won their case?:confused:

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi

 

This is the rule 78 calculator if it helps

 

Rule of 78 Loan Calculator

 

Thanks for that!

 

Was up till 3am recalculating the figures using the Rule of 78 formula on the The Office of Public Sector Information website.....It wasn't an easy task!!:(

 

Looks like they made me overpay by 1,400! On Monday, I'll be sending them a copy of my calculations (as my prelim) as well a copy to Trading Standards to cross check the figures for me.

 

I'll also be claiming back the default interest of 21.17 and collection activity charge of 352.50. This gives a total of 1,900 or so. The grand total with 8% statutory interest (not 100% sure if this applies) is 2,800...:grin:

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The redemption figure is the total amount required to be paid to discharge the loan : it is made up of

 

(a) The amount of capital outstanding +

(b) Any administrative or legal fee at the end of the loan +

© Any fees agreed before the loan (to be debited at the end) +

(d) Any default charges or interest thereon +

(e) The total charge for future interest -

(f) The Rebate

 

These calculations will give the redemption figure.

 

You can only claim :

 

(d) if the charges are unreasonable.

 

and

 

the difference between the charge for future lost interest (which is made up of total and future interest)(e) minus the rebated amount (f) if the amount is more than reasonable (i.e more than their actual loss). What you are effectively arguing is that the amount they have charged you for future losses is unreasonable. The FSA enquiry and undertaking effectively says that the figures arrived at using the rule of 78 to calculate their losses will almost certainly be unreasonable. So whatever figure they have arrived at for the redemption figure is relatively unimportant, whereas the figures for calculating their actual loss are.

 

Whilst I dont want to be pessimistic there are some important things to consider,

 

(a) Banks usually employ only a small team of legal people since their legal issues are fairly limited (mainly debt) and usually straightforward.

(b) Building Societies and Mortgage Companies on the other hand employ large numbers of legal people since they are dealing with legal issues on a much bigger scale (conveyancing, landlord tenant, contractual stuff etc).

© The law relating to property, conveyancing, mortgages etc is far more complex than that which arises when claiming back bank charges.

(d) it is generally accepted that Mortgage Company Legal people are for more skilfull and have much more expertise than bank legal people.

 

I still think you can and should make a go of it but it's not something I would fancy fighting myself (please remember this is only my opinion and you certainly shouldn't let it put you off). I'm not aware of any cases that have won other than those already mentioned that have lost.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Hi all

 

I am still waiting for the rest of my info from my S.A.R but last week I had a letter from the ICO to say they were going to write to BF about non compliance.

 

Today I recieved a letter from Monarchs Stating that the account is in serious default.

 

They are claiming 1 months payment (which is higher than normal amount) and over £800 in charges that must be paid or they will commmence legal proceedings!

 

Can they do this. They have not mentioned charges before and no default notice as of yet.

 

All help gratefully recieved.

Link to post
Share on other sites

From personal experiance i dont remember getting a default but presumed i did. They went for a re-possession hearing with me, but i managed to pay all arrears a few days before the hearing date, by borrowing off a friend.

 

As this was done before the date, the hearing was cancelled, and i had no charges. Scarey stuff though. :(

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

WOW, what a thread! It's taken me ages to read through it, and all the documents I have relating to my dealings with BF. I do need help though as to a way forward....

 

I took out a second mortgage of £25,000 with BF. The agreement is signed by me (not them) as 27/05/05. (31/05/05 seems important from alot of the above - but the loan wasn't granted until June or maybe July 2005).

 

I lost my job and last year they began chasing me trying for respossession. Woolwich were OK about my arrears (having never been unemployed before) but BF were dragging me to court every other month, even though I told them I was releasing capital from another property I half own and intended to pay them off in full).

 

There were some late payments, as my employment became erratic (not least because of the stress of repossession threats). They've had every penny as far as the installments are concerned, and on 14th February I paid them £25,000 by debit card (it was too much for Barclays to do over the internet) but that didn't stop them sending me an "arrears letter" from their debt collection branch dated 15th February (but posted on 20th).

 

I asked for a balance of the account, but was today sent a Solicitor's letter with their redemption figure of £7,219. On top of that I have to pay a further £4,929 in legal fees for their failed attempts to repossess my property.

 

If I pay £12,149 by 17/03/08 the debt will be cleared. But by then I will have paid more than £48,000 for a £25K mortgage over 32 months! That's actually more than the outstanding amount on my Woolwich mortgage!

 

I think I need to ask them for a proper statement detailing all charges and the rate of interest they have charged me. The original agreement said 17%, and they have never sent me a letter advising any change to that (as they are required to under the *very* feint print on the back of the agreement).

 

HELP!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Oscar

 

These are the worst of the worst. I would refrain from talking to them on the phone in future as they never stick to anything said.

 

If you post in the following section you may get a quicker response.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/

 

You will see there is someone else dealing with a repossession from BF.

 

Good luck

Link to post
Share on other sites

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2323 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...