Cockfosters tube - NCP car park

[donttrythisathome]

To all victims of NCP at this car park - this may be of interest even if you have already paid the fine.

 

I received a standard template letter through the post from NCP saying I hadn't paid a £50 parking ticket for allegedly parking in a disabled spot.

 

I replied in the only way I could - using their internet pay mechanism to make what they called an "appeal" - as follows.

 

Quote

I do not recognise this as an appeal formal or otherwise but for your convenience I will follow your terminology. This then is the beginning of the appeal process and for reasons which will become obvious this document cannot contain the full grounds of any appeal.

When I travel to London I usually park in the Cockfosters car park. I have checked my diary and it does not mention anything indicative of a visit to London as the day’s entry mentions only a visit to a school in Cheshunt.

That said, it is possible I was in London that day (and thus the car in the material car park) though I do not recall it and did not notarise it. Please supply any evidence you may have of this.

I am not aware of any parking ticket being issued though obviously I cannot say for certain that it was not. If it was issued then it could not have been affixed to the outside of the car because if it had been then I would have seen it and removed it. Alternatively it was affixed to a place in the car where I could not or did not see it and so it simply may have blown away once driving.

Regardless of how this matter came about, in any case I do not have the minimum information I need to contest this matter. Therefore I require you to post to me a copy of the original document that you say was issued including anything that may have been written or printed on it and anything that may have been written or printed on the back of it and if it was affixed to the car details as to where it WAS affixed to the car and how it was affixed. Alternatively, and for your convenience, initially I will be happy if you simply scan and email pictures of both sides of it and of whatever tape or item you use to attach these things.

If the ticket contains any reference to terms or conditions or anything else outside of itself, please also forward a full copy of those terms or conditions or anything else.

I am not entirely happy about having to enter these details twice because of the failures in your system to process this message.

 

I get an apparently conciliatory eight-page reply which I append to this message as individual files. More soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are serious technical defects in the supposed ticket, but in the end I chose not to point them out.

 

Much worse, they quoted statute that could not possibly apply to Cockfosters.

 

Again I chose not to point this out as I assumed they had simply referred to the wrong legislation.

 

In the event I replied again electronically as follows:

 

Quote

FAO [redacted]

Customer Operations Manager

ncp.co.uk/pcn

[date]

Dear [redacted]

Thank you for your letter of [date]. Unfortunately it confuses rather than elucidates your position.

I asked for a copy of the parking ticket. What you have supplied, assuming it is a true copy, would be legally defective anyway but at this stage that is not my point. I requested not a true copy but a copy. As I also said a scanned copy would be sufficient, I thought it was clear I meant a photographic copy, one suitable for submission to a Court as evidence. I apologise if this was unclear to you and I repeat my request. Please send me a photocopy or a photograph or a scanned copy of the ticket.

Secondly, you have not complied with my requests that you supply me with other specified evidence, or any other evidence, that I was in contravention of anything at all that day.

Most significantly, you quote railway byelaws. At the same time you continue to talk of “appeals”, just as you did in your initial letter. As you are aware I declined to accept that terminology, assuming it was not meant literally. Now you are mentioning appeals again but in a totally different context, I infer you are serious. Let me explain the issue so you will understand I think you are wrong to use this terminology. It has always been my understanding that any matter involving bye-laws are decided by a Magistrates Court, and therefore any appeal must be from a decision made by a magistrate. Alternatively, this is a simple contract matter for the County Court. If so, appeals in such a simple small claim would be from the DJ to a nearby Circuit Judge.

In neither case can NCP decide, or even be involved in except as litigant, any appeal process (because that would breach legal procedure, natural justice, and my Article 6 Convention rights). It follows either that you are confused or that NCP is being disingenuous.

I assume you are confused, and so I ask you please to clarify your position. Will this matter be, or has it been, referred to the County Court or to the Magistrates Court?

If the former, please commence action by sending me a PD Protocols-compliant Letter of Claim, as you ought to have done already, and I will deal with it accordingly.

If the latter, please provide specific evidence that the operation, specifically NCP’s operation, of the material car park is governed by railway bye-laws, and identify the case and which Magistrates Court is (currently) handling the matter so I can progress the matter with Applications, including one for Special Disclosure, against you.

 

 

 

To which, with a stupidity matched only by arrogance, they were stupid enough to reply with a two-page letter as appended:

 

I'm now going to write back to them claiming some money.

 

However the reason I'm posting here is I'm interested in finding out if there is anyone on this forum who has actually paid a "penalty notice" at this (Cockfosters) NCP car park but would like to get their money back.

 

docs1.pdf

[donttrythisathome]

..

[68904]

Why bother, you have a unenforcable invoice from a Private Company.

If you ignore it, it will go away by itself.

If it were me I would put your pen down and ignore these [problematic].

[Al27]

If you want to put the time in running rings round them, then fair enough.

 

End result will only be the usual Roxburghe / Graham White crap.

[letshelp]

Nice to see that even NCP believe they can issue and 'enforce' fines.

regards

[lamma]

NCP are digging a big hole for themselves here sp keep on helping them. You clearly know what your doing. NCP won't risk court but they are doing a good job of building the case that you can bring against them.

[donttrythisathome]

Thanks, but it's now too late for them to avoid Court unless they pay me out.

 

I'm not posting here to help my own case, that'll only be worth injunctive relief (my main purpose) plus maybe a few hundred quid.

 

I'm looking for someone who's actually paid them prior to today for a ticket at that station, someone who still has the ticket and proof of payment.

 

Together with the evidence they were dumb enough to put in my hands, I can use that to make NCP pay back all the fines successfully levied at that station over the last six years.

[lamma]

Carry on sir ! suggest you put out an appeal for payers on the other parking forums.

[Al27]

Now, who has the guts to pay NCP and then take them to court and get it back?

[donttrythisathome]

Now, who has the guts to pay NCP and then take them to court and get it back?

No. The Court, probably and quite rightly, would take a dim view of such cynical behaviour. That's why I said "prior to today".

[pin1onu]

In mentioning the byelaws they are, IMV, in breach of CPUT by claiming authority where they have none. They're even stupid enough to admit it's a private and that they don't have the authority. You might want to put that before a court as evidence of their wrong doing as well.

 

Why don't you make a formal complaint to Trading Standards as well, it won't do your case any harm.

[donttrythisathome]

Why don't you make a formal complaint to Trading Standards as well, it won't do your case any harm.

Because I'd never ever go to TS where private remedy is so easily available. And because - on the assumptions NCP gets money from Cockfosters for about 10 tickets per day and I can find a volunteer - I'd much rather make them pay back a million quid (the money paid, 10 x 50 x 2000 days).