Securitization - Discussion

[spartathisis]

from the Capital One v HMRC case:

 

25. "He (Mr Bonsall) did not disagree with Mr Ingram's view that what has been achieved is a true sale, an essential condition if capital relief is to be obtained for regulatory purposes in the US (it is not a UK requirement), though his opinion was that the arrangements, seen as a whole, are consistent only with what is in any real sense a borrowing by COBE." Both sides agreeing the assignment was a "True sale"!

[emandcole]

Probably a little early for such a question but I'll throw it in now and see what comes of it .

 

If a Credit Card provider 'sells' the account debt to a DCA, assigned absolutely and not just equitably, how would we know if this amount had been securitised and if it had been how does this impact on the subsequent claimed 'right' of the new owner to take litigation for recovery in their own name?

 

This is the whole point of this securitisation discussion after all I believe. Are we any closer to actually understanding this process and/or determining how we would gain access to such account history to show a court that the seemingly simple act of selling an account debt is in fact far from straight forward?

[DonkeyB]

Surely the deed of assignment should be the key to this?

 

Or is it likely that the buyers 'do things' with the debt after the sale which are not transparent?

[emandcole]

Exactly, something somewhere has to be wrong with this entire process.

 

The law is quite clear on the rights of a claimant to bring recovery action. If we can crack this we'll be able to attack the right of any creditor to initiate litigation. I'm not up for destroying the entire financial market but given the mess the global economy is in I feel it's not too much to ask that all of this is opened up and fairness applied across the board.

 

What documentation would show the owners/interested parties on a debt? There must be documentation of some kind detailing this process and specifically naming the debt totals (including your own CC account for example) that have been 'sold' to other institutions as part of this process.

 

Is it perhaps the 'promise' of future repayment that is sold meaning there is nothing tangible to look at? Can't believe there is nothing on paper that would confuse the whole assignment and ownership rights process!

[humbleman]

Exactly, something somewhere has to be wrong with this entire process.

 

The law is quite clear on the rights of a claimant to bring recovery action. If we can crack this we'll be able to attack the right of any creditor to initiate litigation. I'm not up for destroying the entire financial market but given the mess the global economy is in I feel it's not too much to ask that all of this is opened up and fairness applied across the board.

 

What documentation would show the owners/interested parties on a debt? There must be documentation of some kind detailing this process and specifically naming the debt totals (including your own CC account for example) that have been 'sold' to other institutions as part of this process.

 

Is it perhaps the 'promise' of future repayment that is sold meaning there is nothing tangible to look at? Can't believe there is nothing on paper that would confuse the whole assignment and ownership rights process!

 

It is pointless us understanding this process when the judiciary doesn't. If and when they issue a claim the court is more interested in whether you owe the money or not, it doesn't matter(within reason) who is suing you the argument is too technical for 98% of the Judges at the county court level. They certainly don't like a learned LIP.

[emandcole]

You're absolutely spot on and appreciate the county court is a pretty blunt and unsophisticated tool but the fact remains if we have a valid legal point that we can demonstrate the courts will simply have to respond, they cannot go on indefinitely pushing sound argument aside purely because of their own ignorance.

 

Sure, it may take time but if you go back even 10 years look at the amount of change that's been bought about. It may be a hard task but it's not impossible by any means. We should explore all avenues and aim to understand the process so that we can then explain the argument concisely and clearly. We have nothing to lose by doing this.

[humbleman]

emandcole

 

I agree with your sentiments, believe me I have some strong view after the injustice I was served couple of weeks ago. Where I knew what I was saying was the truth and the other side were cooking things up.

 

What you are talking about here is changing the establishment and it will take years. But you got to make a start somewhere.

[emandcole]

I'm still up for a bit of that perfect world dream . What happened to you however was poor, that's why we need to keep pushing for a better system. Delusional ideals...maybe .

[DonkeyB]

Any other day, humbleman, you would have ripped that lot to shreds...

 

Most judges do consider the law and well-formulated arguments. The problem is they don't often get them from defendants! That's what we can change here on CAG.

[spartathisis]

Bump