False accusations after complaining - ** WON **

[elpulpo]

There is the argument that the appeal needs to be exhausted before one could look at making, say, an application to ET.

She certainly isn't looking for reinstatement, I'd imagine. That's always the danger in these situations.

[Ms_J]

What did the solicitor say about the fact that, by the time you received the dismissal letter, you were no longer an employee and hadn't been for almost a week?

 

Aside from that reason, I don't think you should appeal for another reason. The remedy for a successful appeal is reinstatement. Do you want your job back? If not, don't appeal.

 

Was your grievance ever concluded? Did you appeal that?

 

You really do need specialist legal advice I think.

 

The solicitor can't fathom that one out.

I certainlly do not want reinstated! My grievance was never aknowledged let alone concluded!

[Ms_J]

There is the argument that the appeal needs to be exhausted before one could look at making, say, an application to ET.

She certainly isn't looking for reinstatement, I'd imagine. That's always the danger in these situations.

 

The solicitor said that I should state that I do not wish to appeal and why.He said this should cover me if it went to ET. I have no idea if this is true or not!

[elpulpo]

I'd just always err on the side of caution and try to at least make it look like I'd tried to resolve the matter before litigation.

That needn't mean going with your cap in your hand and begging for your job back, just making sure you've communicated your opinion and what you want before filing in the ET1.

[Ms_J]

I see what you mean. Do you think a letter stating that I do not agree with their decision and the reasons why would do? I would not attend an appeal hearing, the whole thing has been a joke from the start.

[elpulpo]

I see what you mean. Do you think a letter stating that I do not agree with their decision and the reasons why would do? I would not attend an appeal hearing, the whole thing has been a joke from the start.

Yes. Exactly.

[pippadeee]

If the solicitor can't fathom it out I'd say visit another solicitor.

 

Its a mess, no doubt about that.

 

On the dismissal front, the odds are far better if pursuing a wrongful dismissal claim than a constructive dismissal one. I'm far from convinced however that the former is an option open to you since you resigned, had served your notice and were no longer an employee by the time the company "dismissed" you.

 

Again, I'm not certain but it seems to me that the company's behavior in this "dismissal" process would only strenthen your cause in a constructive dismissal claim.

 

Yes, ordinarily you should exhaust all avenues and appeal where grievances are concerned. But if you appeal against the "dismissal" you're in effect agreeing with their stance that you were actually dismissed and didn't instead resign...and is that in your favour or not? A good or bad move? I don't know.

 

As things stand, reference wise, the company is probably going to state you were dismissed (and possibly for gross misconduct). Since they seem to be a law upon themselves I suspect that they'll use that excuse not to pay you for your notice period and only upto the date of the supposed hearing.

 

It's looking highly likely that you're going to have to take them to court to get what money you're owed from them, and also to clear your name. How you play it however ie dismissed v constructively dismissed, is another matter and one you really do need legal advice from.

 

In a dismissal scenario I'd say a tribunal woud look very unfavourably on the company's actions- particularly how they proceeded in your absence when you were unfit and off with stress. That's assuming the dismissal was valid in light of the fact you'd left the company by then.

 

In a constructive dismissal scenario I can see potential problems with that on your side. The company's argument will probably be that, faced with an investigation and looming disciplinary, you went sick and soon after resigned, refusing to attend the hearing and you also resigned, not because you were left with no choice, but because you had another job to go to. To strengthen that argument the company has a reference request from another potential employer....which they received before they had the opportunity to hold any grievance hearing to give them the chance to address your concerns. I'm not saying this is all correct-we know it is not- but this is how it tends to work and what employers do claim in their defence.

 

Before you do anything else, we need to determine legally whether this would count as a summary dismissal or a resignation...and soon.

 

Did the dismissal letter state a date of dismissal btw? Did it state exact reasons for dismissal and state you have the right to appeal?

 

Re your grievance - they claimed not to have received the first grievance then you sent it again and it was then acknowledged that time - am I right? Did they ever give you a hearing date for the grievance? Wasn't it to be held at the same time as your disciplinary hearing or am I confusing that with your manager's hearings?

[Ms_J]

Ok. I will get working on a letter.

I am worried about my final wage, the reply to the LBA said I'd be paid at the end of the month but I demanded payment within 7 days. Should I just leave it and hope that he pays up on the 26th?

[elpulpo]

I'd wait 'til the 26th now, then if no joy, go straight after them.

[Ms_J]

If the solicitor can't fathom it out I'd say visit another solicitor.

 

Its a mess, no doubt about that.

 

On the dismissal front, the odds are far better if pursuing a wrongful dismissal claim than a constructive dismissal one. I'm far from convinced however that the former is an option open to you since you resigned, had served your notice and were no longer an employee by the time the company "dismissed" you.

 

Again, I'm not certain but it seems to me that the company's behavior in this "dismissal" process would only strenthen your cause in a constructive dismissal claim.

 

Yes, ordinarily you should exhaust all avenues and appeal where grievances are concerned. But if you appeal against the "dismissal" you're in effect agreeing with their stance that you were actually dismissed and didn't instead resign...and is that in your favour or not? A good or bad move? I don't know.

 

As things stand, reference wise, the company is probably going to state you were dismissed (and possibly for gross misconduct). Since they seem to be a law upon themselves I suspect that they'll use that excuse not to pay you for your notice period and only upto the date of the supposed hearing.

 

It's looking highly likely that you're going to have to take them to court to get what money you're owed from them, and also to clear your name. How you play it however ie dismissed v constructively dismissed, is another matter and one you really do need legal advice from.

 

In a dismissal scenario I'd say a tribunal woud look very unfavourably on the company's actions- particularly how they proceeded in your absence when you were unfit and off with stress. That's assuming the dismissal was valid in light of the fact you'd left the company by then.

 

In a constructive dismissal scenario I can see potential problems with that on your side. The company's argument will probably be that, faced with an investigation and looming disciplinary, you went sick and soon after resigned, refusing to attend the hearing and you also resigned, not because you were left with no choice, but because you had another job to go to. To strengthen that argument the company has a reference request from another potential employer....which they received before they had the opportunity to hold any grievance hearing to give them the chance to address your concerns. I'm not saying this is all correct-we know it is not- but this is how it tends to work and what employers do claim in their defence.

 

Before you do anything else, we need to determine legally whether this would count as a summary dismissal or a resignation...and soon.

 

Did the dismissal letter state a date of dismissal btw? Did it state exact reasons for dismissal and state you have the right to appeal?

 

Re your grievance - they claimed not to have received the first grievance then you sent it again and it was then acknowledged that time - am I right? Did they ever give you a hearing date for the grievance? Wasn't it to be held at the same time as your disciplinary hearing or am I confusing that with your manager's hearings?

 

Thanks pippadeee. Firstly, I went off sick before the allegations were made and had seen my GP a month before hand as I was struggling to cope. This can all be verified by GP reports and/or copies of sick lines.

 

I could also prove that I was offered a job after resigning.

 

The letter stated that I have 5 days to appeal, it does not state when the dismissal is effective from. Reason for dismissal is my actions are deemed to be gross misconduct.

 

After mentioning in a letter (resignation, I think) that my grievance letter had never been aknowledged he replied that he never received it but after looking through previous correspondence he noticed that I mentioned that I had submitted a grievance. He said he would be willing to discuss this. I didn't follow it up as I had resigned and thought it pointless.

 

I have an appointment to see my GP as I am quite sure that I am depressed now. I was prescribed pills for anxiety but they haven't helped much. I started my new job but I feel unable to continue with it. The fact that I am lucky if I get 15 hours a week is not helping either!

[Ms_J]

I'd wait 'til the 26th now, then if no joy, go straight after them.

 

I will do. It is a nightmare, I will have to cancel my direct debits because the final pay is by cheque.

[pippadeee]

Thanks pippadeee. Firstly, I went off sick before the allegations were made and had seen my GP a month before hand as I was struggling to cope. This can all be verified by GP reports and/or copies of sick lines.

 

I could also prove that I was offered a job after resigning.

 

The letter stated that I have 5 days to appeal, it does not state when the dismissal is effective from. Reason for dismissal is my actions are deemed to be gross misconduct.

 

After mentioning in a letter (resignation, I think) that my grievance letter had never been aknowledged he replied that he never received it but after looking through previous correspondence he noticed that I mentioned that I had submitted a grievance. He said he would be willing to discuss this. I didn't follow it up as I had resigned and thought it pointless.

 

I have an appointment to see my GP as I am quite sure that I am depressed now. I was prescribed pills for anxiety but they haven't helped much. I started my new job but I feel unable to continue with it. The fact that I am lucky if I get 15 hours a week is not helping either!

 

 

Good - thats put my mind at rest about what they might argue about it.

 

Get that original grievance letter sent to him again (grrr..) stating "as per my original grievance dated xx and sent to you on xx ,which you claimed not to have received, here again is that grievance which I still require addressing by you. Since I am no longer employed by the company please confirm in writing you agree to use the modified grievance procedure."

 

(modified grievance procedure = no hearing. They respond in writing.)

Modified grievance procedure

 

The modified grievance procedure is comprised of two steps: step one requires the employee to set out in writing not only the grievance but also the basis for it and to send the statement to the employer. At step two the employer responds in writing to the employee. The modified grievance procedure may only be pursued if the employment has ended and the parties have agreed in writing that the modified grievance procedure should apply (see Regulation 6(3) of the Employment Act 2002 (Dispute Resolution) Regulations 2004).

 

 

For the time being I'd just get that sent off. Since we aren't sure whether to labour the fact you resigned, or whether to argue against the dismissal (ie which of the two legally applies, and/or is in your best interests) I'd say stay clear of mentioning either of the two in writing to the company....not until you know which way you're going with this.

[pippadeee]

PS - try to persevere with the new job. Even a few hours a week concentrating on something other than this will probably be better than having too much time with not much else to think about BUT this.

 

Don't let the b*ggers win. You're out of it now, you've got another job (thats the biggest hurdle of all after something like this), your ex employer has cocked up and been so vindictive in so many ways its unreal. You'll get the swine

[Ms_J]

Good - thats put my mind at rest about what they might argue about it.

 

Get that original grievance letter sent to him again (grrr..) stating "as per my original grievance dated xx and sent to you on xx ,which you claimed not to have received, here again is that grievance which I still require addressing by you. Since I am no longer employed by the company please confirm in writing you agree to use the modified grievance procedure."

 

(modified grievance procedure = no hearing. They respond in writing.)

Modified grievance procedure

 

The modified grievance procedure is comprised of two steps: step one requires the employee to set out in writing not only the grievance but also the basis for it and to send the statement to the employer. At step two the employer responds in writing to the employee. The modified grievance procedure may only be pursued if the employment has ended and the parties have agreed in writing that the modified grievance procedure should apply (see Regulation 6(3) of the Employment Act 2002 (Dispute Resolution) Regulations 2004).

 

 

For the time being I'd just get that sent off. Since we aren't sure whether to labour the fact you resigned, or whether to argue against the dismissal (ie which of the two legally applies, and/or is in your best interests) I'd say stay clear of mentioning either of the two in writing to the company....not until you know which way you're going with this.

 

Ok, I will get that sent off ASAP. I will speak to the solicitor properly and see what he says. I will also see if I can find another solicitor and get their opinions on this mess!

[Ms_J]

PS - try to persevere with the new job. Even a few hours a week concentrating on something other than this will probably be better than having too much time with not much else to think about BUT this.

 

Don't let the b*ggers win. You're out of it now, you've got another job (thats the biggest hurdle of all after something like this), your ex employer has cocked up and been so vindictive in so many ways its unreal. You'll get the swine

 

Thanks pippadeee. I am struggling, I am getting up at 5.30am to do 2 or 3 hours work. They give me work then take it off and replace it with less hours.

Moneywise, it is costing me £40 a week in petrol and I am lucky if I am earning £100.

[Ms_J]

This is my reply to the letter informing me that have been sacked. Anything I should add or remove?

 

I would like to request a copy of the minutes that would have been recorded at the disciplinary hearing held in my absence on 22nd January 2010. I will expect to receive these within the next five days.

I would also like to inform you that although I strongly disagree with the outcome of the above hearing I will not be appealing the decision as I am aware that this was always going to be the outcome and an appeal hearing would not alter that . The whole disciplinary process has been carried out in an unfair manner and you claimed that Mr XXX was chairing the meeting as an independent party when quite clearly we all know that he is anything but independent to the situation.

Mr XXX stated that I should contact him if I required any further information but unfortunately he forgot to provide any contact details therefore I am having to request the information from yourself.

 

 

Yours Sincerley

[Bigredbus]

Hi 'Ms J'

 

Sorry to intrude in the middle of it all... but, may I ask, what the written reason(s) for dismissal is/are?

Edited February 21, 2010 by Bigredbus

[elpulpo]

This is my reply to the letter informing me that have been sacked. Anything I should add or remove?

 

I would like to request a copy of the minutes that would have been recorded at the disciplinary hearing held in my absence on 22nd January 2010. I will expect to receive these within the next five days.

I would also like to inform you that although I strongly disagree with the outcome of the above hearing I will not be appealing the decision as I am aware that this was always going to be the outcome and an appeal hearing would not alter that . The whole disciplinary process has been carried out in an unfair manner and you claimed that Mr XXX was chairing the meeting as an independent party when quite clearly we all know that he is anything but independent to the situation.

Mr XXX stated that I should contact him if I required any further information but unfortunately he forgot to provide any contact details therefore I am having to request the information from yourself.

 

 

Yours Sincerley

Looks good.

[Ms_J]

Hi 'Ms J'

 

Sorry to intrude in the middle of it all... but, may I ask, what the written reason(s) for dismissal is/are?

 

Hi Bigredbus

 

No need to apologise. The reason they have given is that my actions were considered to be gross misconduct.

I have been provided with two copies of my signature downloaded from royal mail for two of the allegations and no information or proof with regards to the third letter that they say I received and kept.

[Ms_J]

Having just re-read the letter, it states that I am not entitled to notice pay. Does this mean that I will not get SSP from the date that the disciplinary took place on 22nd Jan?

[elpulpo]

It should be from when you were notified of your dismissal.

[Ms_J]

It should be from when you were notified of your dismissal.

 

Fingers crossed it is but I will not bank on it given his track record. I have emailed asking for clarification.

 

Thanks for all of your help elpulpo, I appear to be in a constant state of panic and I have no idea what I would have done without the support of you guys.

[elpulpo]

Yer sister was on here earlier. Don't know what her problem is.

[Ms_J]

Yer sister was on here earlier. Don't know what her problem is.

 

Don't worry about her, she is even more loopy than me!

[Ms_J]

Well, as expected there was no payment made. He advised me that he anticipated payment to reach my account at some point today. That is not good enough, I have now been hit with bank charges.

I am at the end of my tether, I have no money and I have no idea what the hell to do now!