Council tax bill paid but not bailiff fees.. am I safe?

[myolford]

Hi there, first posting here,

I had a liability order issued for outstanding council tax whilst i was overseas. I came home to find a bailiff letter through my door, I contacted the council who would not take paymant from me initially but later relented and took part payment,They told me they would only accept the payment of the oustanding amount once I had payed the bailiff fees. I told them I disputed the amount the bailiffs wanted and would not pay them until I had received a full break down of the fees and charges. I spoke with the bailiff who visited (Equita) and he told me he had already levied goods ie a vehicle on my driveway.Where is the paper work I ask? in my van he says... ? ? ?

Basically man from equita he wants £250 fees, i then pay outstanding council tax amount via web site.So no more debt covered by the liability order.But the equita man now states that his fees are covered by the order and he will come and remove goods. I say i dont think so.. this is a new debt and we are in dispute as to how much is infact owed.At which point he says i will come and remove goods and puts the phone down. Any thoughts?

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Basically man from equita he wants £250 fees.

 

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid council tax is the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and provides £24.00 for a first visit. He can charge a further £18 for a second visit. No other bailiff's fees can lawfully be charged if a bailiff has not moved your goods in a vehicle and you have not signed any document consenting to a levy or a walking possessions agreement (currently a flat rate of £10).

 

The following procedure currently has a 100% success rate. The letter below asks the bailiff to pass a truth-test about his fees. Three things can happen, 1) The bailiff can try to convince you his fees comply with legislation – and you now have a written confession he intended to defraud you. 2) He can refund you – and this is mitigation the bailiff intended to defraud you. 3) No reply – you can proceed with litigation against bailiff and council. In any event, you have caught the bailiff with pants at half mast with this letter.

 

The Bailiff Company

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Your fees.

 

I write following visits by your bailiff however there appears to an irregularity with your fees and I am writing to ask you to provide me the following within seven (7) days:

 

1) The name of the court that issued the certificate for the bailiff in charge.

 

2) Written itemised breakdown of a) your fees, and b) the original debt.

 

3) The name and address of the organisation that instructed you

 

4) a) Truthfully confirm in writing your fees are lawful and comply with legislation or, b) refund me the unlawful fees plus reasonable compensation for being cheated by your bailiff with his fees by midday the seventh day from the date of this letter.

 

A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an arrestable offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss therefore, if no satisfactory refund is made to me by 12.00 midday seven (7) days from the date of this letter I will automatically file a complaint to police under the 2006 Fraud Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. If you have charged VAT on unlawful fees then you may be reported for VAT fraud and your documents will be given in evidence.

 

Case law requires I recover unlawful bailiffs fees from your client that instructed you. If you fail to make the required refund within seven days I will automatically proceed by filing the claim at court.

 

This is a letter before action and is not a request to access any personal data about me in the meaning of the Data Protection Act 1998. It is delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

Copied to: [NAME OF COUNCIL]

 

Send a copy of the letter to the council along with a copy of the bailiff’s fee document.

 

Head of Revenue

Borough Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Council tax arrears and your bailiffs fees

 

Please find a copy of a letter before action that has been delivered by even post to your contractor who is claiming you have instructed to act.

 

You contractor is cheating with his fees and it is my intention to reclaim them by filing proceedings in the small claims track if they are not refunded in full within seven days.

 

As the council is liable for its agents it is my intention to name the council as the principle defendant, however, Court rules require me to give the council reasonable opportunity to settle the claim beforehand.

 

If you wish to settle the claim, please pay me the sum described in the enclosed letter at the above address within seven days from the date of this letter.

 

You may wish to launch an investigation or make your own enquiries; this does not delay the proceedings being filed at Court, and to protect other taxpayers from being defrauded in this way, the case will pass to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

These documents are delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests they are handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

 

Encs:

1 Copy of letter to bailiff

2. Copy of bailiff document showing his fees.

 

If you don't get a refund in seven days or the bailiffs fob you off with excuses, download and complete a Form N1 from the HMCS website.

[myolford]

Thanks for the response, the only break down of charges that I have came via the council after they contacted the bailiffs following my complaint to the council.This is how they replied via email:

 

The Bailiff fees are currently £242.50. As previously advised, this is broken down as follows; First visit £24.50, second visit £18.00, a levy fee £72.50 and a van fee of £127.50

 

As i said the council tax is fully paid now,but I have not paid the bailiff fees as my understanding is that the fees quoted are wrong. I accept that the £24.50 and £18.00 may be valid but certainly not a levy fee with no proof. Incidently the levy is apparantly against a vehicle on my drive so the bailiff tells me.I presume he thought he could pop it into the back of his van for another £127.50

Am I right in my understanding that the bailiff cannot now action the levy as the debt has been discharged and that the fees are not subject to the original liability order and must therefore be considered a new alleged debt?

[Guest Happy Contrails]

That is correct, bailiffs cannot enforce payment of his fees once the debt has been discharged. He must start a civil claim against you for his fees.

[tomtubby]

That is correct, bailiffs cannot enforce payment of his fees once the debt has been discharged. He must start a civil claim against you for his fees.

 

Sorry HC but this information is not right.

 

Strangely, the regulations for council tax provide that from any monies received, bailiff charges must be deducted first with the balance paid to the local authority.

 

I will try to make this simple.

 

Lets assume that the Liability Order is for £150 and a bailiff has visited twice when nobody was at home. The charges are therefore £24.50 for the first visit and £18.00 for the second ( a total of £42.50).

 

If you pay £150 to the bailiff company they will DEDUCT their charges first and pay the BALANCE of £107.50 to the council. This means that the Liability Order has NOT been discharged and the bailiff ccompany can continue with enforcement.

 

I cannot tell you the number of cases that we know of where this happens.

 

If payment of the £150 as detailed above is paid to the local authority....they have a DUTY to ensure that they deduct the bailiff fees from the payment.

 

In your case the bailiff has applied a levy fee AND an "attending to remove fee". He CANNOT apply to ATR fee because this can ONLY be applied if has has PREVIOUSLY levied upon goods.

[myolford]

Thanks Tomtubby,

I have paid all the oustanding council tax directly to the council themselves.No payment made at all via the bailiffs.I spoke to the council and they have confirmed the account is now fully paid. With regard to the bailiff fees as you point out they would appear to be incorrect as i thought. So what would be the best course of action stick it out and see what happens or pay up and try to claim back ? Also i thought the levy had to be proportionate to the debt? Levy against a 30k car for what is effectively now a £240 debt? Also the vehicle is subject to finance.

 

Thanks

[Guest Happy Contrails]

.I spoke to the council and they have confirmed the account is now fully paid.

 

And that is correct - because you have discharged your liability.

 

Tomtubby, what legislation says a bailiff can enforce payment of his fees?

 

If a debtor has already discharged his liability directly with the council (e.g. by paying it online) and the bailiff has not received his fee then the bailiff cannot levy on the debtors goods because his fee. It is not council tax and is not on the Liability order. The bailiff has to file a claim under the civil procedure rules and yes - he can quote the regulations you mention above.

 

While your advice on this forum is commendable, but on this occasion and in light of the council position given by the OP, my original comment stands.

 

That is correct, bailiffs cannot enforce payment of his fees once the debt has been discharged. He must start a civil claim against you for his fees.