abroadgirl v vanquis

[abroadgirl]

it isnt a true copy as they crossed out my old address and wrote in my new address

i did not have this card in my old address yet it has been handwritten in

do i re write to maynard again

i dont know what to do

now they are offering a one off payment and a phone number to call them on

any advise please

tyvm

hugs

abg

[abroadgirl]

i havent heard from ca sice sending the letter about not a true copy will let you know if i hear

take care

abg

[abroadgirl]

hello cabot are saying it is a true copy i know it isnt heres is the latest i have gI got the copy from cabot, which means they got the cca from vanquiss and they sent me a copy.

 

now i have this morning got another letter

your account has been escalated to our pre litigation department

 

i dont know what to do and i have noticed that the amount has gone up again to £1603.44 so more charges have been added this amount is nearly all charges from vanquis.

cabot also says in there letter that one of the following will occur

warrent of execution

chargeing order

attachment of earning

order to obtain information external debt collection agency/legal agency

 

 

i dont know what to do or do i just give up and offer 50p a month

i disagree cause most of the amount here is made up from charges

ty for any help and advice

abg

ot from them

[hillards]

Hi - I'm not around here as much as I used to be due to work commitments, but spotted your latest post and wanted to comment.

 

I seem to remember you disputed the matter due to the excessive charges that had been added by Vanquiss, but they've not done anything about that. Someone said you should SAR them and make a claim for those charges, which is your main course of action, if you've not done it already. You may not get actual money back, but it would reduce the amount on the account.

 

In the meantime, if you've told Cabot that the matter is disputed, and have written to Vanquiss to say so, then they should NOT be chasing you and I would simply ignore them! (Sorry fellow CAGgers, but they should only need to be told ONCE, not over and over). They've already written to say that it is unenforceable, and with that in writing I would stop listening as they failed to come up with an agreement.

 

If Cabot were stupid enough to try taking the matter to court then they would be laughed out if the matter is in dispute. I would not listen to any more of their threats, because that is all they are - that 'could' do this, they 'may' do that, they are just as likely to say "we 'may' give you £6,000 for Christmas and we 'could' pay for a smashing holiday..." as that is just as probable in my book!

 

To short-cut all that, if you are sure the CCA is as useful as Andrex (other bottom wiping products are available) then it's time to stop listening to them at all. As long as they think they've got your attention, they will keep hassling you.

 

You've done as much as you need to in getting the CCA and discovering that they do not have a leg to stand on. They will try everything they can to suggest that you must pay up - or else. Or else what? They make threats, they try to intimidate, they can do nothing without taking it to court, and you know they have nothing to back up such action.

 

If they were seriously going to do anything major, like take legal action (which are vastly different from legal sounding threats) they would have done that by now.

 

Same with the other companies you have chasing - if you sent for the CCA, with the payment and by registered as advised, and they've not replied then they are not really bothered about proving there is any 'debt' and I would simply ignore them if they huff and puff about it. You've done your bit, you've asked for the CCA or other proof, they've not complied. They shoot themselves in the foot, that's not your fault

 

Those that have responded and not sent anything valid are also on my 'oh well, I tried' list and are also ignored. Note that this is my opinion and not meant to be legal guidance on any course of action you should take. have to say that as the DCA lawyers often have a look in...

 

cabot also says in there letter that one of the following will occur

You sure that says 'will' ? It's normally 'may' or 'could', to make you think they mean it. They can do NOTHING on that list apart from swap info with their pals at a credit reference company. Any such action MUST be via a court and ONLY if they managed to get that far, and the judge awarded in their favour - called a CCJ, County Court Judgement.

 

The judge would take into account all your evidence and your financial situation and you would NOT be forced to pay it in a lump sum, or at a rate higher than you can reasonably afford. It's only where a CCJ is made and the person ignores that where further action would be taken by the court - and even then, the collection people cannot enforce anything, only the court can... But remember, they do not have anything meaningful to go to court with, so it's not going to happen, is it?

 

Remember the Wizard or Oz? Big booming voice, lots of smoke. All the people were afraid of him, until the lion, scarecrow, tin man and Dorothy discovered he was a little man hidden behind a curtain who didn't really have any power at all...

Edited October 28, 2009 by hillards

[abroadgirl]

Hi Hillards, I was wondering where you were thankyou for your most welcomed reply,

in asnwer to your last bit of your letter it reads on my letter

We

We would take futher action my account is now been escalated to the next stage o f our collections etc

then again says

if we dont hear from you one of the following will occur

then what i put in last post

at the very end of letter says it is most important to contact us urgently

but i did everything that i was advised to do, on here and the cca was scanned on here thats how i know it isnt a true copy and they had (vanquis)crossed out my previous address and put my home address where i am now, it is in here the cca somewhere i will look at it for you to see

tyvvm for everything look forward to hearing from you next time

take care

abg

[hillards]

They are spouting hot air, nothing more. I'm surprised they say "will occur" as they simply cannot do that. It's normally 'could' or 'may' as I said. They have to go to court to get that sort of action, and it's not up to them to decide what the court should order, if there was a CCJ in the first place.

 

You've tried to sort it out with them, they've said it's unenforceable, you have proof of that, so let them send as many letters as they like, they'll get bored eventually!

[abroadgirl]

Hi Hillards tyvvm for your reply i will keep this in mind what you have said

ty again for everything

abg

[teaboy2]

Ignore them, they stated themselves the debt is not enforceable. the fact they provided you with a cca where the address had been altered, means its not a true copy of the original and therefore not acceptable under the CCA request you made. ALso where were the Terms and conditions on the CCA? where they on the same piece of paper within the same 4 corners? I doubt it! chances are they given you a application form and sent you a terms and conditons on seperate sheet if they actually sent any.

 

You should tell them that as a result of their unwillingness to resolve your dispute that they are in breach of OFT Guidelines and you will report them to the OFT, trading standards and that as off now you request that they stop processing your data immediately in accourdances to the Data Protection ACT. Failure for them to stop processing your data would be a criminal offence and should be reported to the information commissioner. Basically, once you tell them to stop processing your data you should no longer receive any letters or phone calls from them. as for them to carrying sending letters and making calls to you would mean they still processing your data despite the fact you have withdrawn your consent for them to do so. they can only sent a letter acknowledging your request.

 

Also inform them since they have not compiled with your CCA request that they are now infact in default on the account. therefore until the default is resolved by providing you with a True copy of the CCA they nor any other debt collector can lawfully continue to pursue for this debt.

 

oh and send them an invoice for all the charges they have added to the account as your adminstration charge and charge for your time which was lost dealing with their letters, just to be spiteful and see how they like it. it certainly works for me! infact am sure i read somewhere that debt collection agency can not add charges or interest to the debt while its in dispute same with original creditors.

[abroadgirl]

hi teaboy2, thankyou for your reply its was a gr8 reply tyvvm

now im going to ask something i agree with everything in your reply but being a bit think n slow how do i start a letter,

im not sure how to word it as i am a bit soft laughs i have been asked to stop being polite etc smiles

 

please can you help in any way of a letter for me please

i hope you dont mind

tyvvm

abg

[abroadgirl]

hello everyone

how have you all got on with cabot?

 

after a long period now they have sent me a letter about making payments no havent paid

 

now i have a letter stating if i dont respond they will either

heres the options

bailiffs

cout action

arresment of wages

etc etc

 

there normal

and they are saying the cca is true copy

what when they/vanquis struck out my old address and wrote in the new address i didnt havew the bloomin card at my old address

i had it scanned and turne3d out to be untrue wasnt a true copy

 

they wont give up do they

 

any advise please

tyvm

abg

[teaboy2]

Abroad girl send them the letter below, once you sent them this letter then you are placing them in default. and as a result they can not legally pursue you until they provide you with the correct documentation. Oh and dont for get to creat a quick invoice using and microsoft word/office invoice template for the admin charges you have incurred. i normally charge about £25 per letter i have to write them and same for every call i get from them weather i answered it or not and give them 14 days to pay, and if they dont inform them you may start debt collection proceedings against them lol

Notice of Non-compliance

 

Account Number:

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of (date), the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On (date) I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on (date), (12+2 working days AFTER the CCA request was sent)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law. But as you already knew the debt was unenforceable at law as you have already stated so in previous letter dated (enter date of their letter where it was stated).

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute/default.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party i.e another debt collection company.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter, which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours

 

 

Simple edited the letter with the dates etc and them post it to them at your local post box with a big smile on your face knowing that you have now got them by their balls lol.

[abroadgirl]

wow teaboy thats excellent thankyou i im onto this now

tyvvm for your help & hillards also.

tyvvm

i will update you as and wshen i hear anything tyvm

abg

[abroadgirl]

here it is the not so true cca

 

hope i have deleted it took ages to find out how to do it

thankyou

Edited November 8, 2009 by abroadgirl

[teaboy2]

is that it???? lol you can relax as to me looking at that its nothing more then an application form. A true copy of the original CCA must be a signed agreement headed under the consumer credit act, and must also have within the same 4 corners of the document the terms and conditions. looking at what you posted its nothing more then an application.

 

However to be certain we would need to see the full document. Or is that all thats on the document? also when did you recieve that as i have another letter that you can send them in response to it?

 

p.s you might want to remove the image as it contains your personal details which can lead to DCA's indentifying you.

Edited November 5, 2009 by teaboy2
letter removed as already poosted previously

[abroadgirl]

ive tried to delete but not sure i carnt find delete

yes that is it the other part i will get it for you

[abroadgirl]

here is the other part

[abroadgirl]

hi this is what they have posted me as the cca

 

the best one yet is in my other thread jd williams you know they have actually handwritten my details in blue ink !!!!!!!!!

[teaboy2]

its just an application form unless theres terms and conditions included in the same 4 corners of the document which there isn't.

 

also, am not sure if it because you enlarged the image or not, but is the written text legible when you look at the actual document? because if not then it wouldnt stand in court either.

 

i will have a look at your other thread too at some point today

[abroadgirl]

[abroadgirl]

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[abroadgirl]

hi teaboy

i have had all the correspondance out and the cca which i have deleted it came on 4 seperate sheets a4 paper cca is what is on the front of the first page then pg 2 page 3 pg 4

is this what they call there cca which still isnt a true copy and as i said they crossed out my old addy and handwritten my new addy and i had been in this house 2 yrs when i applied to them cause they phoned me up here.

tyvm for all your help

abg

 

i had already sent the letter below do i send another one now?

abg

[teaboy2]

whats actually on page 2,3 and for are they terms and conditions?

 

Are all 4 pages linked together by statements like continued overleaf or terms and conditions overleaf?

 

p.s fact they changed your address means its not a true copy and can not be enforced as they have defaced it.

[abroadgirl]

hi tb

thankyou for your reply.

i have 4 pages A4 paper

thay are copied pages and all single no cont overleaf etc

all single A4 sheets

1 cca

2 t/c

etc etc

 

cabot had photo copied them i was shocked when i seen it and i didnt even live at my old address id bee at this addy for about 2 yrs before i applied to vanquis and then they phoned me here at this address thats how i knew it was a false one i applied online to vanquis and they phoned me here at this addy then they sent me my card they phoned me to see if i would still accepot a card even thou the limit was only for 200 thats how i remember

ty

abg

[teaboy2]

ok so theres nothing linking the application form to the t+c's which is good because it makes it unenforacble too.

 

 

from your last post am i right in understanding that you never had the credit card at your old address and that you applied online for one while at your current address and therefore you never actually signed a CCA? Yet they have made up the cca theyve sent you and lifted your signiture of one of your previous letters?

[abroadgirl]

hiya how are you

yes love thats right and i never had it at my old address i applied online here after moving here a couple of years then i applied they have crossed my old addy out and they he or she has handwritten this addy on it

 

so to answer all yours

yes yes yes your right

what do i do now

ty so much for all your help and advise it is now starting to do me head in they want there payments oh i am claiming all the charges int etc back as most of the total are made up of charges so ive done that

abg