parking ticket within 2 mins ?

[Potless1]

just got a parking ticket at 2 mins past the elapsed pay & display ticket time, pay & display elapsed at 6.58 & the parking ticket was issued at 7.0 just as i got back to my car he was placing it on my windscreen ! surely you get a few minutes leeway ?

its also islington council & its a straight £80 which is criminal !

[Jamberson]

There's no leeway for overstaying. Unless there's some other discrepancy with the PCN, it would be enforceable.

 

I agree - an £80 charge is wildly out of proportion to the offence, but all you can do is write a polite letter explaining why you were slightly late, and appeal to their sense of fair play.

 

Is there any other reason it might be invalid? Was it completed correctly? Issued to you? Definitely issued on behalf of the council and not a private company?

[pin1onu]

Post up copies of the front and back of the PCN so it can be checked. Councils sometimes provide you with a get out because their paperwork is non-compliant. Make sure you obscure identifying details.

 

It would be worth making informal representations given the fact that you were only 2 minutes late back. The council can use their discretion in cases like this.

[crem]

I will stand corrected by our council PCN experts like G&M, but I would have thought 2 minutes would have come under an appeal on "de minimus" in that my watch may show a slightly different time to your watch which shows a slightly different time to the P&D machine.

[pin1onu]

I will stand corrected by our council PCN experts like G&M, but I would have thought 2 minutes would have come under an appeal on "de minimus" in that my watch may show a slightly different time to your watch which shows a slightly different time to the P&D machine.

I was thinking the same thing but wasn't sure of my ground.

[Jamberson]

Councils use the logic that you pay for a fixed time period, which you can measure on your watch if you prefer.

 

But you can't read the return time from the ticket and assume your watch agrees with the clock on the machine. There is a logic behind it, cruel though it is.

[green_and_mean]

Most Councils allow a few minutes 'grace' period but this is not always the case. I would at least make an informal appeal and ask for proof the time on the machine was checked prior to issue and check the signage on street, you can use google street view if you are not local.

[Potless1]

made a mistake with the fee, it say's £80 is now payable but on the attached piece at the bottom it says there is a discount of £40 if payable within 14 days !

anywhere here are the ticket details:

 

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk278/yid-old-boy/2mins1-1.jpg

 

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk278/yid-old-boy/2mins2.jpg

 

cheers !

[Jamberson]

Same advice applies. You're in the discounted window and normal practise is that if you appeal in the 14 days, they hold it at the discounted rate.

 

You should definitely appeal it, and can expect that if your appeal fails you reserve the option of paying the reduced rate. It's not a legal entitlement (I think) but normal.

[Potless1]

hi, could anyone help with an appeal letter, i am useless at writing appeal letters & i usually put in a few sacrcastic comments which im sure always goes against me as i always lose !

 

cheers

[Jamberson]

Dear sirs,

 

PCN number:

Registration number:

 

On XXXX I used an on-street pay & display bay and purchased a ticket for the duration. I checked the return time on the ticket and endeavoured to make sure I was back in time. I was a little later than expected but nonetheless arrived back at the car right on 6:58, according to my watch.

 

I was dismayed to see a parking attendant in the process of issuing a PCN. It transpires that there was a very small disagreement between my watch and the clock on the ticket machine. I was at the very most two minutes behind schedule.

 

Whilst I appreciate that technically I overstayed, I would like to respectfully ask that on this occasion you cancel the PCN. I had no intention of staying beyond my entitlement and was genuinely surprised to find that I had - by the smallest fraction.

 

I would be most grateful if you would give this your consideration. I support the existence of parking controls generally and am not someone who would seek to gain advantage by not paying for a ticket.

 

Kind regards, xxxx

 

 

--- Make sure you include your name and address at the top or they will disregard the letter.

[Potless1]

thanks a lot, i will let you know the outcome !

 

cheers

[green_and_mean]

Dear sirs,

 

PCN number:

Registration number:

 

On XXXX I used an on-street pay & display bay and purchased a ticket for the duration. I checked the return time on the ticket and endeavoured to make sure I was back in time. I was a little later than expected but nonetheless arrived back at the car right on 6:58, according to my watch.

 

I was dismayed to see a parking attendant in the process of issuing a PCN. It transpires that there was a very small disagreement between my watch and the clock on the ticket machine. I was at the very most two minutes behind schedule.

 

Whilst I appreciate that technically I overstayed, I would like to respectfully ask that on this occasion you cancel the PCN. I had no intention of staying beyond my entitlement and was genuinely surprised to find that I had - by the smallest fraction.

 

I would be most grateful if you would give this your consideration. I support the existence of parking controls generally and am not someone who would seek to gain advantage by not paying for a ticket.

 

Kind regards, xxxx

 

 

--- Make sure you include your name and address at the top or they will disregard the letter.

 

I wouldn't send a letter saying I was late state you came back on time and ask for proof that you were late ask for the CEOs notes that the clock on the machine matched the time on his machine and a written record that he synced his PDA with the atomic clock at the start of his shift......never admit you are in the wrong!

[Potless1]

HOW ABOUT THIS UPDATED VERSION:

 

Dear sirs,

 

PCN number:

Registration number:

 

On XXXX I used an on-street pay & display bay and purchased a ticket for the duration. I checked the return time on the ticket and endeavoured to make sure I was back in time, which I did, when I returned to my car I was dismayed to see a parking attendant in the process of issuing a PCN. It transpires that there was a very small disagreement between my watch and the clock on the ticket machine & the attendants ticketing machine. If for instance there was a +50 second difference in the attendants clock, by the time he took down details for the ticket it must have added at least an extra 1 min & that could be the difference between the expired 2 minutes. Could you please provide me proof that I was late & also copies of the CEOs notes that the clock on the machine matched the time on his machine and a written record that he synced his PDA with the atomic clock at the start of his shift as I am positive that I have not committed an offence to warrant the PCN.

I had no intention of staying beyond my entitlement and was genuinely surprised to find that I was given a ticket even though I was back on time.

I support the existence of parking controls generally and am not someone who would seek to gain advantage by not paying for a ticket.

 

Kind regards, xxxx

 

 

?

[green_and_mean]

Much better, if you state you were late you are alreay on the defensive and may just as well send a cheque in my opinion. It is up to the Council to justify giving you a PCN and not for you to grovel and beg foregivness when essentially you got back on time. My local authority give 5 minutes to avoid any dispute over time which is fair especaially when parking can be over £15 getting a fine for being a minute late is ridiculous and thats coming from someone that works for the Council, lol.

[Jamberson]

It's a matter of opinion which approach is best, but I am not convinced that the second version is better. It effectively denies any contravention was committed and relies on some error their end.

 

I disagree that they have to prove the contravention took place. They have to assert reasonable cause to believe it did, which they will, and the burden (perhaps unfairly) falls on the owner to show it did not. That is going to be hard to do.

 

The PA probably did sync his clock, and they will send back the requested proof of this, in the process supporting their case that a contravention took place, and will send back the PA notes as requested. What does that achieve? The appeal will have no further substance and so it will be rejected.

 

I think it much better to hold up one's hands and admit a very small overstay probably happened, and ask reasonably for leniency. If this fails, then the rep stage would be an option for pressing for some procdural error on their part.

[crem]

If you're gathering opinions on hich way to play this, I would agree with G&Ms approach. After all, he is quite close to council parking procedures so should know the best way to approach them.

[Jamberson]

Me too...

 

I think anyone who works on a Council appeals team will judge that the contravention took place. The guy was just fractionally late back.

 

The significant question is, should he incur such a hefty penalty charge as a result?

 

There are two views you can take: Legally, should he have to pay - or morally should he have to pay.

 

I personally think the legal argument being put forward by G&M is the weaker. There is no obligation for them to prove the contravention took place - they just need reasonable cause to believe it did - which they already have. Proving they contravened procedure is, in my view, a long shot.

 

I think the moral case is stronger - but hey, it's up to the OP to decide. I'm not saying I'm necessarily right, but if it were me, I'd ask for leniency rather than proof.

[Potless1]

hi all, well its too late now, i sent the letter off before the last 3 posts were read by me & i am asking for proof !

 

fingers crossed !

[green_and_mean]

If the Council had any intention of being leniant on those that are only a few minutes late surely they would not instruct CEOs to issue instantly?

[lamma]

how do we know what the council instructed the CEO ?