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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Monument CCA -Help Please

squidward

By squidward
in General Debt Issues

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davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted

I had EXACTLY the same type of CCA....once providian then Monument and now Barclaycard.

 

I threatened to take them to court...they wrote it off....£3.5k.... :)

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted
Hi All,

 

Well I have received a DN from our friends at Monument

 

Letter dated the 23rd November sent second class received it on the 26th, DN says I need to pay the arrears to rectify the situation by the 7th December :eek:

 

Now I thought they had to give you 14 days clear ?

 

Funny thing is they have sent a letter along with the DN which is headed "Final Notice Pending Termination Of Agreement" my Credit file now has a Default registered.

 

Now does this mean all i have to do is pay the arrears and thats it ?

 

maybe.......my maths puts it at tue 15th Dec

 

can you post the DN

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted
Hi Dave

 

I'll scan and post up the DN and Termination notice I got the date to the 11th but not sure if I have got the correct timings

 

4 days second class post + 14days to remedy then is it another 4 days postage?

 

Squidward

 

It doesnt really matter.....7th DEC is WRONG in ANY case.....

 

(my initial calcs were wrong too should have been upto 13th Dec)

 

KEEP the ENVELOPE !!!!! if you havent already got rid of it.

 

Service is determined to be on the second WORKING day for 1st class or on the fourth WORKING day for 2nd class the 14 CLEAR days to rectify.

 

 

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted

OK.... they have NOT allowed ANY time for postage / service.

 

A definite cock up..... have you still got the envelope ??

 

there are many ways to play this......some risky and potentially costly, some simple and easy.

 

simple is always best....

 

you could write them a letter explaining why you consider the agreement to be in default and add that you consider that there is no debt to answer, and if they think there is they should take you to court to prove it.

 

the possible worst that might happen is that you lose...you could ask for time to pay at a reasonable amount and not be too much worse off than you are now......

 

or you might win......:)

 

the third result is that they wont do anything except chase you for the next six years and then it will fall off your record ...game over

 

your choice

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted
Squidward

 

Do not tell Monument that their DN is faulty. Once the account has been terminated, they cannot issue a corrected DN, but until then, they can.

 

Alan

 

I agree.....tell them nothing other than you feel that the "agreement" does not conform to cca 1974, and that you consider that there is no debt and if they want to take you to court you would welcome it.

 

unless they are feeling suicidal they wont bother, you may get all sorts of threats from dca's...but what are they going to do ???

 

Throw the ball into their court.......and then ignore them until they actually start something. do not acknowledge the debt or pay anything towards it and in 6 years it will be gone, or sooner if they are stupid enough to take you to court.

 

in the end its your decision....think long and hard about what you want to do and the possible consequences, and make an INFORMED decision.

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted

Personally I would stop paying.....(my choice) I would goad them into taking some form of action. The thing of it is, its a crap agreement ....they know it.

 

if you are acknowledging the debt you will be paying it forever, whereas if you tell them to "go forth and multiply" then as I said before they will either take you to court or sell the debt on.

 

If they take you to court, they are most likely on a loser (NOTHING is 100% certain) do your homework and present your case and most likely you will win.

 

what is more likely isthat they will sell the debt on......you will just have to deal with various dca's ad nauseum until 6 years is up then you are home free.

 

your credit record will be trashed for several years in any case being on a dmp does not do your credit rating any good it will just show up for longer unless the debt is very small.

 

work out how long it will take you to pay back your debt at £13 per month.... then add 6 years because that how long it will stay on file after you finish paying it.

 

BUT you should not go off "half cock".... do your maths and your homework and try to make an informed decision YOURSELF. dont let me or anyone on here make the decision for you......only you know what is right for you

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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  • 1 month later...
davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted
Update

 

Is this a new tactic to get me to sign a new credit agreement...I think so and I will not be signing it.

 

I received a phone call from a company called JCI who now look after my Monument account.

 

They say that if I agree to new payment terms they will write off 1500 of my account. Funny thing is when I web searched JCI I found it's owned by Compucredit and the Rise Visa card is Raphael's which was the company that had my Monument account prior to Compucredit. It seems to be going around in circles .....!

 

Balance Transfer Programme

 

So I sign this then they have an agreement for the original debt and can then enforce it thought the courts .....crafty beggars.:razz:

 

yeah they try all sorts of tricks....MBNA tried that one too......they hope that you are stupid

 

*** please tell me youre not *** (oh yeah and DONT sign)

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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Share on other sites
davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted
Definitely not stupid they can go whistle!

 

Question ?

 

Have they effectively terminated the agreement when they sent the DN (defective) and then passed the account to JC.

 

Should I CCA JC and when they can't produce a Valid CCA tell them to Beggar off!

 

The reason I ask this is because it has not be "sold" to a external company just moved to a different division of the organization.

 

Squidward

 

IF they have issued a DN (defective or not) and then asked for the full balance back, then they have effectively terminated.

 

BUT !!!

 

be carefull, have they issued a termination notice ?

 

you could I suppose write to them and say something like....."why are you asking for the full balance?...........you cant, because you havent terminated the agreement yet"

 

checkout the t&c's that they supplied to see what rules they have for terminating

 

It may well have been transferred "in house" and they may not have terminated it yet.....have you had a Notice of Assignment (NOA) ?

 

if it HAS been sold then they HAVE terminated it.....and on the back of a dodgy DN and you are home free.....well sort of.

 

you need to find out !!!!

 

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted
Hi Squidward,

 

Now subbing, I too have just had the same reply card that you had and same letters in response, yet to reply to their 'Final Response' but will probably push for the missing statements in order to put in a PPI claim (they call it Payment Break Plan) no details of this enclosed with SAR either.

 

Direct debit stopped this month so will await their calls.

 

Does anyone know any of their phone numbers? (wonder if they have as many as Capital 1?)

 

Here is a link to mine if you want to take a look at what they sent me.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/239332-monument-cca.html

 

EXACTLY the same as mine......transferred to Barclays and rather than go to court they wrote it off £4k..!!!!

 

BUT... I have seen EXACTLY the same one go to court and LOSE

 

its the judge lottery !!!

 

I (personally) would goad them....the worst that could happen is that they WILL take you to court...you could strike lucky and get a good judge.....or even a bad one, and if you argue your case with conviction and passion and get the facts right then you should win. If you dont you could ask for time to pay......maybe a win / win scenario.....

 

BUT....its you who has to fight it and only YOU can make the decision.

 

think carefully, weigh up the facts

 

rgds

 

Dave

  • Haha 1

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted
EXACTLY the same as mine......transferred to Barclays and rather than go to court they wrote it off £4k..!!!!

 

Hi Dave,

 

This sentence makes me jump, I bank with these and am aware of 'offset rule', how did yours come to be with Barclays? I know they had connections previously.

 

The original card was with Providian.

 

Hi...

 

yes mine was with Providian too....

 

it seems that when Monument was sold they split it.....one half to Barclays and the other half to Raphael bank or compucredit (the receivables part of it).

 

I think Barclays "cherry picked", and got what they thought was the better deal....(not in my case :) )

 

The advantage of course is that the original T&C's wont be available :) , and the "agreement" sucks in a big way.

 

I threatened barclays over a period of months and in the end they wrote it off......

 

yours is probably with Raphael bank......NOTHING to do with barclays.

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted
Hi Dotty

 

"off Set Rules" I haven't got a clue as I have never banked with Barclays or any division of them, I had a Barclaycard but that's about it.

 

Why does it make you jump am I missing some point here?

 

Regards

 

Squidward

 

Basically put.....with "offset" they can take money from any account from the same group to pay off any debt to that group.....so if you had a barclaycard and a barclays account, they could take money from your barclays account to pay off your card......without asking you !!!

 

BUT it ONLY applies to companies within the same banking group.

 

that is how I believe it works.

 

rgds

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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  • 1 month later...
davefirewalker

davefirewalker

Posted
Posted
Update

 

Didn't sign the balance transfer program offer!

 

Had absolutely no contact, no phone calls or letters or anything!

 

Anyone else found the same............am I home free!!!

 

Squidy

 

I'll tell you in five or six years if you have had no further contact :)

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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