'thegfb vs NatWest - PPI' ***Refunded ***

[alanalana]

Hello the gfb,

 

Ok thanks dx, to be honest I don't know the previous account numbers (if they are different), I might have the paperwork somewhere. I do have the agreement for the current loan still I will check when I get home from work.

 

If you do not have the previous loan credit agreements you can start by submitting a Subject Access Request with the statutory fee of £10.00 and request all the data applicable to you as a subject including full details on loans, credit agreements, terms and conditions and anything else you consider relevant. The SAR is a good way to get the information together before you claim mis-sold PPI. The multiple roll over loans with PPI added was also applicable for me and I actually got money back off seven loans back to 1997.

 

Have a look through this and you will pick up more information on the way forward......links

 

This is a template for the SAR just edit to suit your own needs

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resour...ebt-a-dca.html

 

Good luck

[alanalana]

Thank you loads alanalana, there is so much info here I almost don't know where to begin looking!

 

Take your time, it's best to get things right. It takes a while but if you have a good case for mis-selling (Most folks do) then you can be looking at claiming back your ppi on all of your accounts.

[alanalana]

Thanks. Basically, the long and short is that when I took out the first loan in 2003 I was told verbally (I guess they have no information on this or did they record this conversation? doubtful, but if they did, do they still have the recordings and if they do they should release them to you or at least transcripts of the recordings under your SAR if you have the dates times of the meetings it would help), that I had to accept the PPI otherwise the loan would not be given. Mis-selling At my two subsequent visits to the bank, I assumed it was mandatory and did not query it. The two subsequent advisers did not say that it was not mandatory either.

 

Maybe jumping ahead a bit here, but what really concerns me is that unless I had tape recorded my conversations with the sales people at each meeting, it basically boils down to my word against that of the bank

 

The onus is on the bank to prove the sale of the PPI met your needs so they should have completed a customer duty of care questionnaire or a customer needs and wants questionnaire and this should be retained with all the other information on the loan.

 

Hence the need for the SAR so you can request this questionnaire to see if they have fully complied with the requirements at the point of sale. It is for you to claim mis-selling and them to prove it was not. If the questionnaire is missing or any other data such as the CCA, terms and conditions etc then they have the problem, Not you;)

[alanalana]

Ok, in the mean time I have decided to cancel the PPI on my NatWest loan. I worked out that is nearly £50 per month!!

 

If I write to them and request this, could anything I say jeopardise any future reclaims for previous PPI payments on this loan and its predecessors that were the initial loan and an intermediate top up?

 

Considering they only received my Subject Access Request today, I feel it might be a long time before I actually make my initial written reclaim request to them and want to keep my cards close to my chest right now

 

I started a claim for my PPI after I had cancelled but having gone through the FOS route to claim mis-selling the FOS actually wrote to me saying that as I had claimed mis-selling I should cancel any remaining ppi on current policies. having cancelled already it was not a problem. I would advise you though depending on your employer and income to make sure you have cover there a lot of cheaper options out there other than through the lender and this has now been ruled upon by the Competition Commission. Do not just cancel and leave yourself open to having to repay a loan without the means to do it:eek:

 

aa

[alanalana]

They may kick off and say you cannot cancel but if that happens just say you have sent off a SAR with a view to claiming mis-sold PPI and you will eventually be submitting a claim to the FOS or reclaiming through the courts. If that happens the FOS would advise you to cancel any existing PPI agreement before settlement.

[alanalana]

NatWest have responded to my Subject Access Request request, but not everything is there.

 

They have provided me with the CCA and Needs/wants questionnaire for my latest loan (which I have incidentally just settled). I was surprised to see the needs/wants questionnaire, as I had no memory of completing it with them, but it was my signature and a date on it. It does state the PPI was optional, but I was still under the impression that the insurance was required to get the credit and also was not told I could get it from elsewhere.

 

They have not provided me with the CCA or any other paperwork for the two previous loans which were part of the whole 'top up', depsite me making it clear in my Subject Access Request letter that I wanted details of ALL loans with them.

 

Should I write back ask for the relevant paperwork for the two previous credit agreements to be sent, and remind them that they have not fully complied with my Subject Access Request request so far? Yes absolutely and I would point out that a SAR requires them to supply all data they hold and not just the information on the most recent loan.You can put your own timescale on this 14 days I would suggest and inform them failure to comply will result in a formal complaint to the Information Commissioners Office who can insist they provide everything.

 

Advice is very appreciated

 

I had very much the same trouble with RBS I got the ICO involved and was still receiving new paperwork after they had settled through the FOS.

 

There is a link to my nightmare at the bottom of my signature information.

 

aa

[alanalana]

I have the agreement number still for the loan before this one, but neither the agreement nor account number for the first. If I can't supply them with these, do they still have the right to refuse to send me any data? (No. if they have the data they must disclose it to you. If you paid your loan payments by Direct Debit from a current account held with them then the information on the loan should be available from your statements which they should have or you may have.This should enable them to identify the loan details)

Also, is it still reasonable to hit them with a non-compliance letter and stipulate a deadline even if they are still within the 40 days allowance? (Again No. The have the 40 days as it is a statute within the Data Protection Act 1998 so you should wait until the 40 days are up before non compliance and the ICO).

 

There is nothing to stop you from sending regular reminders to insist they give you all the data on all loans you have had with them, during the 40 days but whether this will get results is anyones guess.

[alanalana]

NatWest have replied to me today.

 

The letter states that with regard to the two loans that I asked for further information on, on the first one they cannot locate the loan agreement and have sent only a schedule. (First they can't find it) This is a single A4 sheet with the account number and sort code, loan amount, dates to/from, period, interest, paymenrt per month, insurance premium, charge for credit and total payable.

 

With regard to the other loan (the middle, chronologically) they have sent a copy of the application form which I completed in the bank and a copy of the credit agreement.

 

The letter gives me some patronising talk about 'relevant filing system' and how the Data Protection Act doesn't apply to information stored outside of this.

 

It then goes on to say that since I requested the Consumer Credit Agreements, they are not held by the bank in a relevant filing system and as such I am not entitled to them under the Data Protection Act. (Then theydon' have to. They are talking abosulute rubbish and a lot of banks have changed tactics to try and delay further of cover the fact they do not have the Consumer Credit Agreements)

 

As they have not produced true copies of your CCAs you could actually put the accounts into dispute but you will need to seek more assistance in other threads. Try this one Debt Collection Industry

 

Can anyone advise, sounds like they are getting a bit twitchy?

 

Thanks :grin:

 

Have a look at these links from the ICO.

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/what_is_data_for_the_purposes_of_the_dpa.pdf

 

From the Information Commissioners Office

Ensuring Personal Data is handled correctly - Data Protection Act

 

And these from the CAG site.

 

CCAs on Microfiche

 

Barclaycard & Microfiche - they are wrong - OFFICIAL

 

You should write complaining your SAR has information missing template letter is here...Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters

 

and also complain to the Information Commissioners Officer link and information here...

 

For the Information Commissioners office. (this is an option if the DSAR is not complied with)

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...ess_rights.pdf

 

Information Commissioner's Office - Information Commissioners Office

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...lain_final.pdf

 

Complaints - Information Commissioners Office

 

Keep at them if they still do not come up with what you want I would still bang in a claim for mis-sold PPI.

 

This is a copy of my complaint to the ICO..

 

Submission of a Very Serious Formal Complaint against the Royal Bank of Scotland

 

Despite several further requests for the information as required by my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), none has been forthcoming.

 

Letters have been sent on:

24 January 2008

16 February 2008

12 March 2008

28 March 2008

2 April 2008

12 April 2008

12 April 2008 Request for CCA under provision of Consumer Credit Act 1974

19 April 2008

 

I have still not received Consumer Credit Agreements with associated paperwork on four of the loans. Because of the inordinate delays, the information requested on the first loan which was refinanced in March 2002 would be of no use as any claim against that loan would now be statute barred within the Scottish Courts.

I have not received data in the name of recordings of telephone conversations or transcripts of those conversations between the RBS and myself.

I have not received copies of emails or letters which I know exist.

I have also not received any properly certified documentation by Data Controllers within the RBS stating the information that I have requested has been disposed of, destroyed or erased.

 

The Royal Bank of Scotland is a member of the British Bankers Association (BBA), is licensed by the Financial Services Authority and should I believe, operate within the Law of the Land and therefore respond within the statutory timescales within Legal Acts at Law, namely the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

I have, when asked, provided information to the RBS, but it seems to me now, that they will try and delay supplying the data requested by using whatever delaying tactics they see fit. On one occasion referring me back to DLFS for the information I had requested. The fact that the DLFS had been legally transferred back to the RBS on 1 March 2006 (the transfer included all DLFS loans) was obviously overlooked by the Data Protection staff within the RBS.

This is indeed an extremely sorry state of affairs and it beggars belief that RBS staff would not be aware this Legal transfer had taken place.

 

My understanding is that the RBS had 40 days to fully supply all the information requested in my Subject Access Request, this has most certainly not happened.

 

I would therefore like to request that each addressee takes the appropriate measures to instruct or at least direct the RBS to supply this information to me as a matter of urgency.

 

I have a complaint lodged with the Information Commissioners Office Case Reference xxxxxx

I would now urge the Commissioner to consider an Enforcement notice against the RBS under Section 40 of the Data Protection Act.

I would also request that the Financial Services Authority, the Financial Ombudsman Service, the Office of Fair Trading and the British Bankers Association add this extremely serious complaint to their files on the Royal Bank of Scotland.

 

Yours sincerely

 

hope this helps

 

The ICO upheld my complaint please check out the post mentioned in my thread in my signature box at the bottom of this post.

[alanalana]

Ok, well firstly now all of the accounts are actually settled (the last loan was paid off about one month ago). From the information supplied, I can calculate the total PPI that I think I am owed over the three loans, so would you say I go ahead with my complaint over missold PPI, and not wait to lodge my complaint with Information Commissioners Office? Do I actually need to see the CCA to make a complaint about missold PPI? (Why not claim your PPI and complain to the ICO. You do not need a CCA to claim mis-selling but you can bet Natwest will respond with a "we do not agree you were mis-sold so you can go to the FOS if you want" Problem there is no CCA to attach to the FOS complaint form)

 

Since you have experience with this, do you think I ought to send three separate PPI misselling complaint letters or make it into one? (If the loans were refinancing ie one following on from the other etc then you can bang in one request if the loans were not refinancing ie one paid off then another one started etc then you could put in three complaints. IMO probably better to put them all into one so you do not lose track. You will then know any correspondence is about all three.

 

You are right in that NatWest still haven't fully complied with my DSAR because I asked for copies of all transactions and statements, and none have been forthcoming.

 

PS - I know we are only May now, but the original loan was taken out in early October 2003. This means in about 5 months it will be 6 years since the credit agreement was made

 

Time to move then:eek: better to send correspondence recorded delivery so you can keep track through the Royal Mail website.

 

Claim the mis-selling, Complain to the ICO as this could help you if time runs out and you can point the finger at the bank for not complying fully with your DSAR.

 

Complain to as many regulators as possible ICO, OFT, FSA, FOS, BBA.

 

It gives them something to do in their spare time one letter copied to the lot.

 

aa

[alanalana]

Well, despite posting the letter 1st class recorded on Monday lunchtime, when I check the track and trace it still simply says 'your item was accepted at xxxx post office on 11/05/2009'.

 

Do you reckon this means that it's lost?

 

check again in a day or two it should show the electronic proof of receipt with a signature normally signed by a numpty who cannot spell or write his own name:D

 

aa

[alanalana]

Ok will do aa thanks, it looks like they don't even start making enquiries on lost mail until 14 days are up anyway

 

This is true and if they agree they lost the mail all you get by way of compensation is 12 first class stamps (I have still got at least 28 of the 36 stamps sent to me:D)

aa