Capital One agreement received. Help please

[anxious1234]

Hi. Have received my docs today from Capital One which was in respect of my CCA request. Have attached scanned copies. Can anyone have a look for me, to tell me if it is unenforceable.

 

What concerns me is that they say in the letter that, it is the original agreement but they then say that my personal details, signature box, signature and date of signature have been omitted from the copy provided as permitted UNDER REGULATION 3 OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT (Cancellation notices and copy documents) regulations 1983.

 

Can they withold suppling the signature etc details?

 

What’s my next step?

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Gordon

Edited March 25, 2009 by anxious1234

[cerberusalert]

I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

 

**amend to suit your circumstances.**

[anxious1234]

Hi. Thanks for reply. Will send the letter suggested.

 

However, still concerned that they say they do not have to send all details under the 1983 regs.

 

Can someone enlighten me on this?

 

Gordon

[cerberusalert]

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies

[anxious1234]

So, they are legally entilted to omit them then. In which case, surely they can not be forced into suppling them now. Therefore, how will I know what and if they have an enforceable agreement.

 

Gordon

[cerberusalert]

Have a read through http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[anxious1234]

Hi. Forgive me from sounding stupid, if I do. But all over the forum we are told to send CCA requests to get sight of the original agreements, so that we can check if enforceable or not.

But from the look of it now, this is a waste of time when they do not have to supply these.

 

So what are we expected to do? Just write to the card company as suggested in http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...uldnt-use.html stating that it is not a request under section 78 of the CCA1974. If this is the case can we not get this clear in the Forum to save people alot of wasted time ?

 

Gordon

 

PS Have you checked the agreement copies they have sent me to see if they look enforceable or not?

[cerberusalert]

The reason that http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html is not used willy nilly is because it is part of pre-action protocol, so anyone using it must be willing to go the full mile if need be.

 

The majority of creditors don't hide behind section 78 of the CCA1974 and will actually provide what they have. Whereas Crap1 are devious little pricks and will try every trick in the book to attempt to hoodwink people into believing that they have an enforceable agreement, which leads me to your question. As it stands, yes the agreement above would be enforceable if it were yours.

[anxious1234]

Ok. Thanks. So I send the 2nd letter and see what happens.

 

If no actual original agreement supplied then I will wait and see if they issue proceedings, if they do then request the original as suggested.

 

 

Gordon

[cerberusalert]

Crap1 are notorious for failing to provide enforceable agreements, chances are their in-house monkeys Debitas will eventually pass it onto an outside DCA who can easily be dispatched because until they do provide an enforceable agreement they are stuffed.

[anxious1234]

THanks. Lets hope so as have two accounts with them

[AA99]

Anxious, you have left all your personal details in the attachments. Suggest you delete the attachments, delete your personal details, and re-attach them

 

I also got the same thing today btw, in respect of one of my accounts so will use the CPR3.16 (?) letter as a pre-action (getting ready to go to court) and demand the agreement:mad:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/177738-aa99-capital-one-acc.html#post2064878

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/164583-aa99-capital-one.html

[anxious1234]

Thanks. But how do I delete??

[cerberusalert]

Click the edit button in the post & it'll open up allowing you to delete the attachments.

[anxious1234]

Sorted delete out. Thanks

[anxious1234]

Hi. Sent Scotts letter and received the following response:

 

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss182/q4k/CAPITAL%20ONE/backpage.jpg

 

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss182/q4k/CAPITAL%20ONE/page1.jpg

 

What next?

[cerberusalert]

Send them this letter recorded delivery (print your name,don't sign it)............

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.

 

Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

 

Yours,

Print name do not sign