Lloyds PPI

[thomass1949]

I am in need of advice about a PPI that I had refunded in August, 2007. I have a loan with Lloyds which they refunded the PPI which I received as a cheque. The loan is still in existence. The problem is the loan at that time was unenforceable and stayed that way until September 2008 when suddenly they produced the credit agreement. No problem there is alway the chance that this could happen. However the problem is they did not acknowledge the repayment of the PPI and have kept the loan at the amount with the PPI and have kept adding the interest on to the loan throughout the period of unenforcement. I spoke to LLoyds and they stated that I HAD TO PAY THE PPI BACK!!!

 

I wrote to the CEO personally asking him to investigate and send me the correct balance. I included loads of evidence proving my case. He did not have the manners to reply but I recieved a snotty letter from Customer recovery stating that it was my responsibity to pay the refunded PPI back to my loan!! This was my money and I decided what was donewith it. I was living on IS through long term sick leave and needed money to feed and keep myself. I retired in January 2009 and had not worked at all from 2007 through ill health. This they were aware of even though they have denied it.

 

Does anyone have advice on:

 

The formula for working out the true balance of my loan, which is inthe hands of DCA now.

 

LLoyds reply to my letter does not even acknowledge the unenforced period which has added a not too small amount of interest.

 

I have also contacted the FOS about these issues. I am a pensioner now and have offered the minimum required by law. This they and DCA have totally ignored.

 

I would really appreciate some advice on this.

 

Regards:confused:

[alanalana]

Hello Thomas,

 

welcome to the ppi forum:)

 

I am in need of advice about a PPI that I had refunded in August, 2007. I have a loan with Lloyds which they refunded the PPI which I received as a cheque. (can you please explain how they came to refund the PPI?) The loan is still in existence. The problem is the loan at that time was unenforceable (please explain on what grounds it was unenforceable?) and stayed that way until September 2008 when suddenly they produced the credit agreement. (Is the credit agreement enforceable and is it applicable to your loan? Do you have evidence of the PPI refund with appropriate documentation?) No problem there is alway the chance that this could happen. However the problem is they did not acknowledge the repayment of the PPI (surely there must be a record of the cheque you received within your bank statements) and have kept the loan at the amount with the PPI and have kept adding the interest on to the loan throughout the period of unenforcement. I spoke to LLoyds and they stated that I HAD TO PAY THE PPI BACK!!! (Now why if they have refunded the PPI for whatever reason and the payment was by cheque and that cheque will be recorded within you bank statements would they suddenly turn around and demand the PPI back?)

I wrote to the CEO personally asking him to investigate and send me the correct balance. I included loads of evidence proving my case. He did not have the manners to reply (banker remember) but I recieved a snotty letter from Customer recovery stating that it was my responsibity to pay the refunded PPI back to my loan!! This was my money and I decided what was donewith it. I was living on IS through long term sick leave and needed money to feed and keep myself. I retired in January 2009 and had not worked at all from 2007 through ill health. This they were aware of even though they have denied it. (without knowing all the full details of your case it would seem you have been repaid PPI and because they see you have a period of sickness they recall the PPI that has been refunded).

Did you make any claim on the PPI during your sick absence between 2007 and 2009?

The more information you can provide the more advice you can get from cag

 

Does anyone have advice on:

 

The formula for working out the true balance of my loan, which is inthe hands of DCA now.

 

LLoyds reply to my letter does not even acknowledge the unenforced period which has added a not too small amount of interest.

 

I have also contacted the FOS about these issues. I am a pensioner now and have offered the minimum required by law. This they and DCA have totally ignored.

 

I would really appreciate some advice on this.

 

 

Please find information on DCAs here...

 

Debt Collection Industry

 

aa

[thomass1949]

Hello Thomas,

 

 

 

Please find information on DCAs here...

 

Debt Collection Industry

 

aa

Hi Alanalana,

 

Thank you for your reply. I will answer your questions as best I can.

 

Lloyds agreed that the PPI was missold on the 16th August, 2007 and refunded September 2007 .They actually refunded the PPI from three loans, two of which were fully paid leaving this loan still active. This is the statement put in their letter:

 

'To help me fully investigate your concerns I requested a statement from the sellers at ..........branch who sold the loan protection. Unfortunately the staff members no longer work there and therefore I am unable to establish what was discussed at the sale.

 

I would therefore like to offer you full refund of premiums plus interest on all three loans."

 

They sent a copy of the agreement in August, 2008.

 

In the latest letter I received in response to my complaint to their CEO in February 2009 they agreed that they had refunded the premiums but they expected me to pay it back into the loan.!! They did not mention this when they refunded.

 

Lloyd's had declined every application for PPI I sent them for my monthly loan instalments in January, 2007 and March 2007 when on sick leave.

 

I insisted that the PPI portion of the loan be refunded in cash.

 

The credit agreement became unenforceable 42 days after the 29th May, 2007 as a copy of the credit agreement had not been provided regardless of three requests to Lloyds.

 

They sent a copy of the agreement in August, 2008 when I received demands for the repayment of the loan.

 

All I am asking is that they acknowledge that the loan is now for loan without the PPI. My understanding is that the PPI refunded has been repaid to me in cash and therefore should be taken from the total of my repayments thereby leaving a balance which should be taken from the loan without the PPI.

 

My formula?

 

example: Loan with PPI 3000pounds = PPI 1000pounds refunded. Loan now 2000pounds

 

Payments made 2000pounds, minus 1000pounds (refunded PPI), balance left 1000pounds.

 

I just required them to acknowledge the changes to the loan agreement and send me a correct and upto date balance as I am not sure if I have calaculated it properly now as I don't want them demanding more than they are entitled to.

 

Then there is the issue of the added interest. They did not acknowledge the unenforceabilty at all, even though I provided the evidence. This interest has made a lot of different to the amount they are now demanding.

 

 

I hope you can understand my answers. It is quite complicated.

 

Thank you for your help. Please ask any more questions you may have.

 

Regards

Linda.

[alanalana]

Thank you for your reply. I will answer your questions as best I can.

 

Lloyds agreed that the PPI was missold on the 16th August, 2007 and refunded September 2007 .They actually refunded the PPI from three loans, two of which were fully paid leaving this loan still active. This is the statement put in their letter:

 

'To help me fully investigate your concerns I requested a statement from the sellers at ..........branch who sold the loan protection. Unfortunately the staff members no longer work there and therefore I am unable to establish what was discussed at the sale.

 

I would therefore like to offer you full refund of premiums plus interest on all three loans." repayment was personal cheque to you and not to pay off any balance remaining on the loan?

They sent a copy of the agreement in August, 2008.

 

In the latest letter I received in response to my complaint to their CEO in February 2009 they agreed that they had refunded the premiums but they expected me to pay it back into the loan.!! They did not mention this when they refunded. IMO they cannot do this once you have been refunded. I would ask others for their opinion on this.

Lloyd's had declined every application for PPI I sent them for my monthly loan instalments in January, 2007 and March 2007 when on sick leave. So they failed to honour the agreement and cover the PPI payments. The policy was obviously worthless like so many others sold.

 

I insisted that the PPI portion of the loan be refunded in cash. Which you received.

The credit agreement became unenforceable 42 days after the 29th May, 2007 as a copy of the credit agreement had not been provided regardless of three requests to Lloyds. Did you request the agreement using cca request s77 to s79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 including the £1.00 statutory fee?

 

They sent a copy of the agreement in August, 2008 when I received demands for the repayment of the loan.

 

All I am asking is that they acknowledge that the loan is now for loan without the PPI. My understanding is that the PPI refunded has been repaid to me in cash and therefore should be taken from the total of my repayments thereby leaving a balance which should be taken from the loan without the PPI. If you received the full refund of the PPI then there should have been a revised repayment figure on your loan and this should have excluded any PPI. ie PPI cancelled as refund repaid after they agreed it was mis-sold.

My formula?

 

example: Loan with PPI 3000pounds = PPI 1000pounds refunded. Loan now 2000pounds

 

Payments made 2000pounds, minus 1000pounds (refunded PPI), balance left 1000pounds. Do not follow this formula perhaps another on cag can advise better than I could.

I just required them to acknowledge the changes to the loan agreement and send me a correct and upto date balance as I am not sure if I have calaculated it properly now as I don't want them demanding more than they are entitled to. To get the information you can send a Subject Access Request with a fee of £10.00 asking for all the information they hold. You should get a true copy of the agreement with terms and conditions and statements showing the balance as it currently stands, plus copies of letters etc.

Then there is the issue of the added interest. They did not acknowledge the unenforceabilty at all, even though I provided the evidence. This interest has made a lot of different to the amount they are now demanding. You may get further advice if you call the FOS. They are slow dealing with complaints but they could point you in the right direction before you take further action.

 

I hope you can understand my answers. It is quite complicated.

 

Thank you for your help. Please ask any more questions you may have.

 

Regards

 

 

Have done in blue above if you sent three requests for the agreement they would IMO not be required to supply a copy unless the £1.00 fee was sent as is required in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s77 to s79

 

Hope this helps:)

[resonate]

Hi thomass,

 

I have thought about this in some detail.

 

The amount you pay off of your loan each month takes into account the amount of interest that both the Cash and LPI parts will accrue over the life of the loan. Therefore, the amount you pay each month is not the exact amount that comes off of the balance of your loan; it is less.

 

The amount you were refunded should have included either

 

(a) just the payments made so far on the LPI, or

(b) the payments made so far on the LPI and the remaining balance of the LPI.

 

The payments you have made so far always includes some of the interest.

 

For example, for a cash loan of £3000 with £1000 LPI (total £4000) over a period of 3 years (36 months) with an APR of 10%:

 

The monthly repayments are £129.07 (which is £96.80 for the cash part and £32.27 for the LPI). Say you were refunded the LPI after 18 months (half the loan term). You would have already payed £580.86 off of the LPI, which includes £118.14 interest. The remaining balance of the LPI loan would be £537.28. So, the total refundable is either

 

(a) £580.86, or

(b) £1118.14.

 

Can you determine from your figures which amount you were refunded?

 

If you were refunded (a) then they would have to adjust the remaining balance of your total loan from £2149.10 to £1611.83, which is the remaining balance of the cash part. They could then either,

 

(i) continue collecting the original monthly repayment figure (£129.07), or

(ii) collect only the Cash Loan repayment figure (£96.80).

 

If you continue with (i) then you will pay the loan off quicker than 36 months. If you swap to (ii) then it will take exactly 36 months as before.

 

However, if you were refunded (b) then they do not have to adjust the remaining balance of your total loan because you have been refunded the LPI in total, including interest. If they adjusted your remaining balance as well then they would be refunding you almost twice. It is then up to your what you do with the money.

 

The remaining balance of the loan does not equal the amount that is left to pay. After 18 months you would have made £2323.26 in loan repayments. However, the remaining balance is not the original loan amount (£4000) minus this (which would be £1676.74), but it is actually more: £2149.10 (as mentioned above). The difference is £472.36, which is the accumulated interest after 18 months.

 

This is close to how it works, but not quite. Here I assume that the interest is compounded monthly, but in reality it is compounded daily. It also does not include repayment holidays, missed repayments or the fact that the time from buying the loan to the first repayment date varies from person to person. This does not make huge difference in the figures though.

 

As for me, the problem I have been having with Lloyds is that they refuse to make such a refund, in full or in part. I am very interested in maths and hence I have wanted to understand exactly how loan-repayments work.

 

If you provide the exact figures then perhaps I/we can determine what you have been refunded exactly.

 

Resonate.