OH v BLS/LTSB

[diddydicky]

Hi cb, thanks for your input. Dates are correct, 14 days.....in 2003 when they only required 7 However, the format is wrong because the underlined words are not in a heavier type.

The scan is a true picture, t & cs illegible, page 1 all you can read are the headings and oh's details.

The amount being claimed is less than that show on the DN, even if you remove the arrears amount. What does that mean?

Thank you

 

can you just confirm the date of the DN and what the specific remedy date is- is it a set date or 7 days from date of letter?

[diddydicky]

14 sorry

[diddydicky]

Sorry if I wasn't clear but they gave a specific date that was 14 days after notice was dated in 2003.

 

thanks i guessed that what i was trying to get at is what the date was on the letter

 

for example if sent by second class mail and say on a friday and/or over a bank holiday it is possible that they did not give enough time

 

long shot but worth checking the actual calendar

[diddydicky]

As a result of another me v LTSB I'm on first name terms with most calendar months from 2003!!! This one is a no go but I'm waiting for the result of a SAR as my other case shows the DN being sent on a later date than the one on the notice..... All I can hope for on this notice is the failure to put certain words in heavier type as well as underlined.

 

understood , pity but worth a shot!

[diddydicky]

surely if the T & C's are illegible they are yet to comply with the cca s78 request so are still in default so should not be taking enforcement action

 

i have not seen any rules in the CCA that say that there is a time limit on when the stop being in default

 

mmmm 5 years of unlawful charges on the account then too!

[diddydicky]

Good spot, DD. So that makes the amount claimed on the POC incorrect ?

 

by about 1000 miles i reckon

[diddydicky]

Good spot, DD. So that makes the amount claimed on the POC incorrect ?

 

anycharges and interest added since 2003 will be added whilst in default of their obligations under cca and should not have been charged

 

going to take some working out that lot

[diddydicky]

Hi all I'm starting to get confused!!!!

The DN was issued in April 03 for £XXXX, the court case is for £127 less.

I have letters showing that interest had been added to the DN amount.

There must have been charges; so far I have found them for £15, but I'll keep looking. Is this what the agreed amount for charges is?

Thank you for help from anyone who is less confused than I am

 

have you sent a SAR?

 

have you, since receiving the DN ever had a written demand to pay the WHOLE of the account balance

[diddydicky]

Hi so far last staement I can find is August 03 and this does not show a zero balance, however it does show interest being added.

In May 03 [problem] wrote '...makes a formal demand on yuo to repay the account balance as quoted above.'

and

'our client has cancelled your credit card.'

The account was also passed to MHA for a brief spell.

 

there you have it- an unlawful rescission of contract!!

[diddydicky]

How exactly is this 'unlawful rescission of contract' when this letter was sent after the default notice? Is it because interest was still being added? If this is the case, what should I now do please?

 

the DN was invalid because it contained charges that were not alloweed to be there becuase being in defalut of their obligations under s78 they were not allowed to add charges or interest until the rectified the default

 

the termination was therefore undertaken on the back of a defective DN

 

thererore they have unlawfully rescinded your contract

 

there now is no contract

 

you owe them only the amount of the arrears that were due at the time that the 12+2 days for supplying the s78 material expired back in 2003

[diddydicky]

Thank you. Couple more questions (sorry!) So far have only found charges for £15 in 2003, need my SAR for further info, is/was £15 excessive?

Also, what action should we take re the court case? As there has been no reply to the CPR31.14 I'd been advised to submit the embarrassed defence, should I now be more specific?

THank you. C

 

doesnt matter if its 15 quid or 15,000 quid the amount on the DM must be accurate.

 

you will need input from some of the more experienced guys on putting together the defence in legal terminology (im still learning that bit at the moment) you can start with the pro forma defences on the forum and theyll help you nto adapt it for your needs

[diddydicky]

sorry only just had chance to re read from the start

 

i see you have already been given the format for the embarrassed defence so that is the one to use if they have not responded to your 32.14

[diddydicky]

Thank you for your input. I'm now off to sleep on matters. Good night C

I'm just confused, if there is a potential defence that will stop any action, is it better to use that than having a drawn out one?

 

you CANT make out a proper defence UNTIL you have the information that you requested in your 32.14 so sleep easy- the embarrased defence will hold matters until they comply with your 32.14

 

post up when their time limit has expired to respond and then well advise you the next step

[diddydicky]

Thank you dd, their 7 days for the 32.14 have expired! this is why I'm questioning everything. C

 

if you go to PT's thread why not to use s78 for the agreement ( i think that ws the title) and have a good read on that and related threads you will get a much better understanding

[diddydicky]

you should write and poiint out to them that you still awiat a resonse to your 32.14 (send a copy with the letter) and warn them that if they fail to respond after xxx days you will apply t the court for an order to make them comply

(there are letters on here in this respect that you can copy/adapt)

[diddydicky]

i would give them another 7 days (you could fax the letter for speed - but 141 your number so they cant reply by fax)

 

then, having made the threat you must carry it out!

[diddydicky]

'Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order. '

This was my final paragraph in the cpr 31.14 request. Therefore should I carry out this threat, or tell them I will apply for a court order to enforce compliance?

 

the first thing i learned when i was a policeman was NEVER threaten to arrest someone unless you INTEND to do it!!

 

you HAVE told them that if they did not comply what action you would take NOW YOU MUST TAKE IT otherwise they will assume that (like them) you are all bluster

 

file the embarrassed defence and the a pplication to have them struck out as you were advised

[diddydicky]

Dear sirs, thank you for your letter of XXXXXXX

 

 

With respect I believe your letter should be sent to the authors of fht oxford English dictionery so that they may amend the next edition

 

Your letter seems to elevate the meaning of the words presumptious , and bull**** to new levels

[diddydicky]

Hi dd

I did think that was the case; I assume we just wait to hear from the court?

 

yes but i would write a short snotty letter in a similar vein to that above just to let them know that you know there are talking out of their backsides

 

personally (depending on the strength of my case) i like to use the phrase

 

put up or shut up

[diddydicky]

i'd lend them your JCB

 

that way the'd dig and even deeper hole than they are digging now!

[diddydicky]

It's a N149; there is no estimated time of case shown.

Surely if we are disputing an illegible microfiche copy, there will need a witness to cover hearsay evidence etc?

 

thats good for you- no witness- first strike to you

[diddydicky]

I miay be wrong but i think this can play into your hands

 

 

 

if they produce a microfiche/not original agreement at court and don't produce witnesses (ie the real person that produced that copy document) that can vouch for when where how they were produced it can work in your favour as whoever submits the document is likely to be a third party to it

 

search through x20's threads as there are a list of searching questions that you can ask the person claiming to submit the microfiche copy as evidence

[diddydicky]

Great minds think alike!

I was wondering about incorporating something in my witness statement about needeing possession of relevant documents before bringing a court claim.

 

save that argument for the day in court- too late then for them to try and provide anything else

[diddydicky]

Next point, 'claimant does not have to produce the original document (agreement) which is no longer available. The copy is held on the claimant's systems and exhibitedhere is admissible by virtue of sections 8(1) and 9(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995. The claimant now certifies for the purpose of section 9(2) of the Civil Evidence Act that the copy acceptance form and agreement is a true copy document which forms part of the records of the claimant's business. + signed certificate.

Does this mean that they do not need the original document and that I have to accept illegible copy?

9 Proof of records of business or public authority

(1) A document which is shown to form part of the records of a business or public authority may be received in evidence in civil proceedings without further proof.

(2) A document shall be taken to form part of the records of a business or public authority if there is produced to the court a certificate to that effect signed by an officer of the business or authority to which the records belong.

For this purpose—

(a) a document purporting to be a certificate signed by an officer of a business or public authority shall be deemed to have been duly given by such an officer and signed by him; and

(b) a certificate shall be treated as signed by a person if it purports to bear a facsimile of his signature.

 

they can refer to as many documents as they wish which might form "part" of their records, but what they NEED is a document, signed by you which contains all of the prescribed terms within the signature document

 

they may NOT be contained in , or referred to in another document

 

certificates- load of hogwash- i presume that they are trying to mislead you here, the fact that an officer of the company or anyone else for that matter signs a declaration certificate or an oath does not mean that the contents of that certificate declaration or oath are taken as the truth.

[diddydicky]

I assume that proof of use of cc and compliance with cc are emotional flannel and not a legal argument.

There is a computer print out for issuing of dn, but no amounts, how do I know that it was correctly issued and did not include unlawful charges?

 

most creditors do NOT keep a hard copy of the DN , so all they have is details of when the "puter printed it out and any figures they may have entered into the computer

 

you however have the original DN so what that says is gospel

 

they must provide you with FULL details of how the amount in the claim is arrived at including any arrears, interest charges added to the account