Tai24903 V Abbey

[tai24903]

Hi Guys

I'm after help. I've read threads on this section for what seems like hours on end and I'm a little confused.

I only have a years worth of statements, for which I have approx £700 in charges.

On 14 June I sent my Data Protection Subject Access request to Abbey and on 23 June got what appears to be their standard reply regarding details held on microfiche etc, along with 12 months worth of statements (that I already have)

On 17 July I sent my 2nd letter to Abbey, found in the section 'The Microfiche argument', re: Data protection Act disclosure request.

On 24 July received reply from Abbey saying basically that they've given me all the transaction data I am entitled to, and that the information stored on microfiche isn't covered by Data Protection Act. Enclosed was a leaflet referring me to the Financial Ombudsman if I'm not happy.

 

I've noticed from recent postings on the site, that there is a suggestion to start a Small claim for the information requested and the estimated amount I want to claim (all in one claim).

Any suggestions, I'm finding it quite daunting seeing how long some of these cases are taking.

Thanks:confused:

[kydcarmen]

Sorry I can't help with advice as to what to do, but pm a mod or site helper, they might be able to advise you.

[tai24903]

Hi, thanks for the response.

It was The Draft Approach in Seminoles thread sticky that I was referring to.

I think I'lll sit tight for a few days to see if any further discussion takes place regarding that route.

[Seminole]

I'm going to have another look at that tomorrow and see what changes are needed.

[tai24903]

Bizarre, this morning I have received a statement in the post from Abbey with

£420.00 of refunded charges, without any explanation. Doesn't relate to what I'm claiming from them, has anyone else experienced this just before they are about to issue a claim.

I still haven't completed my Moneyclaim form - I'm a week overdue. What is my next step? Do I contact Abbey or ignore it and continue with my N1 form anyway?

To me, I see this as an admission of guilt.

I'll be really pleased for anyones advise.

Thanks:confused:

 

ABBEY - Subject Access Request Sent 14/6/06

Request for Repayment of charges sent 20/8/06 (for the statements I have)

Letter Before Action sent 4/9/06 (inc. estimated charges £2614.40)

[tai24903]

After receiving another £55.00 worth of charges refunded on this months bank statement, with no word from Abbey, I have finally filed my claim against them with Horsham County Court. (Minus the £425.00 they have already put back into my account.)

Guess I'll wait to see what happens next. Still feeling a bit nervous that something will go wrong or be wrong at this late stage.

Thanks for everyones help in getting me this far, I'll definately be donating if (when) the money finally comes through!

ABBEY - Subject Access Request Sent 14/6/06

Request for Repayment of charges sent 20/8/06 (for the statements I have)

Letter Before Action sent 4/9/06 (inc. estimated charges £2614.40)

Claim Filed Horsham County Court 18/10/06

[tai24903]

Received a letter in the post this morning from the Court to say Abbey have filed an Acknowledgement of Service, indicating an intention to defend all of the claim.

 

I'd be really grateful if someone would let me know what to expect next or to hear from anyone whos at a similar stage.

Thanks x

[tai24903]

Thanks. Guess I'll sit tight till then.

[tai24903]

Have received a copy of Abbey's Defence in the post this morning:

 

1. Save as is specifically admitted in this Defence, the Defendant denies each and every allegation set out in the Particulars of Claim.

2. It is admited that the Claimant has a current bank account with the Defendant, Account No...........

3. At all time the Account has been subject to the applicable terms and conditions wich form part of the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant and to which the Claimant agreed when he opened the Account. the Defendant will refer at trial to full conditions, but for the purposes of this Defence will refer to the following extracts.

a) You can apply for an overdraft on your Account. If we give you an overdraft we will tell you your limit and the interest rate applicable.

b) An authorised overdraft occurs if without our agreement you overdraw your Account or exceed the limit of an overdraft.

c) If you have an anauthorised overdraft, you will be charged fees as set out in our Tariff of Charges or specified to you and these may include fees for transactions we are unable to process due to lack of available funds in your Account.

4. Throughout the period that he has had the Account, the Claimant received a number of copies of the Conditions and of the said Tariff of Charges as they were amended and updated (though there has been no material amendment to the Conditions extracted in paragrapghs 3 (a, b and c above)

5. Any overdraft facilityu on the Account was (and is) subject to the conditions.

6. The Claimant has overdrawn or exceeded authorised overdraft limits on the Account on a number of seperate occasions, full details of which will be provided on disclosure. Therefore by virtue of the Conditions referred to in paragraph 3 above such overdrawing was unauthorised and in breach of contract and the Claimant became liable to pay fees to the Defendant in acoordance with its Tariff of Charges applicable at the relevant time. In accordance with the Conditions, such fees were debited to the Account.

7. In view of the facts and matters referred to in paragraphs 3, 4, 5, and 6 above, the Defendant denies that the amount of £2285.40, or any other amount, was unlawfully debited to the account and the Claimants claim for the repayment of that amount is therefore denied.

8. The Claimants contention that the siad fees are unenforceable and/or are 'penalty charges' is denied. The fees reflect are are proportionate to the Defendants administrative expenses incurred due to the Claimants breach of contract and are a genuine pre-estimate of the damage suffered by the Defendant.

9. Further or in the alternative, even if the said fees are not proportionated fo the Defendant's admistrative expenses incurred (which is denied), The Claimant remains liable to pay such fees as may be found to be proportionate and the Claimant is not entitled to claim repayment of the full amount of each charge made to the Account.

10. No admissions are made as to the amounts claimed by the claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof of the same.

 

I'm sure i've read similar things in other threads, although I can't find where... but is this normal and the Abbeys standard defence?

How on earth am I supposed to prove all the amounts claimed when they haven't supplied details from my SAR?

[karencupit]

Hi Tai,

 

The defence looks exactly like the one in Southerners thread.... "getting my knickers in a twist about going to court". Go take a look and it might help calm your nerves a little!

 

Karen x

[tai24903]

Thanks, I knew I'd seen something similar somewhere!

[tai24903]

Well I received my AQ in the post this morning, with a copy of the defence that Abbey had already sent. It's good to see so many people are at a similar stage, makes you realise your not alone!

[tai24903]

I'm filling in my AQ (N149), for section G 'OTHER INFORMATION' In the space below, set out any other information you consider will help the judge to manage or clarify the claim, including any other information you consider should be supplied by the other party

 

I'm not sure if I need to put anything here at the moment. Abbey never did supply my 5 years statements requested in my SAR - do I need to mention this (I've followed the guidance notes from the Library):idea:

 

Thanks

[tai24903]

Can anyone help with the above post, trivial I know, but I'd like to get it right.

Thanks

[tai24903]

Have today received in the post a General Form of Judgement or Order from the Court.

 

Upon the Courts own motion, the court has made this order of its own initiative without a hearing. If you object to the order, you must make an application to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of receiving it.

THE COURT DIRECTS of its own initiative as follows:

1) The Claimant shall, by 20 December, file at court and deliver to the Defendant answers to the questions and requests below, concluding with the following statement, dated and signed: 'I believe that the facts stated in this response are true':

i) Provide a typed list of the charges in dispute, showing the date and amount of each charge, and the rate of interest applied;

ii) If only part of the interest is in dispute, show what rate and amount are admitted;

2) UNLESS the Claimant complies with paragraph one of this order, the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant may file a formal request for Judgment in default and for the assessment of any costs incurred in the proceedings;

3) A party affected by an order made of the court's own initiative may apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of service.

I have already supplied the court with the spreadsheet of charges and interest. Do I just send the same again? Can anyone point me in the direction of any other threads that have experienced the same.

Lastly, is this still normal ? I'm going to browse through the site again to see what I can find but i would appreciate any comments. I'm starting to get very nervous at this late stage, and beginning to wonder if its all worth it.

Thanks

[tai24903]

Hi Karnevil

I'm confused with the interest bit now, I've just claimed the interest @ 8%

Schedule of charges as follows:

In Respect of:AmountDate IncurredDays since offenceInterest 8% APRESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/07/20002324£20.97ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/08/20002293£20.69ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/09/20002262£20.41ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/10/20002232£20.14ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/11/20002201£19.86UNPAID DD CHARGE£30.0016/12/20002175£14.36ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/01/20012140£19.31ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/02/20012109£19.03ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/03/20012081£18.78ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/04/20012050£18.50ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/05/20012020£18.23ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/06/20011989£17.95ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/07/20011959£17.68ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/08/20011928£17.40OVER OD LIMIT£16.5003/10/20011884£6.84UNPAID DD CHARGE£30.0015/10/20011872£12.36OVER OD LIMIT£16.5011/11/20011845£6.70OVER OD LIMIT£16.5006/12/20011820£6.61UNPAID DD CHARGE£30.0015/12/20011811£11.95ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/01/20021775£16.02ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/02/20021744£15.74ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/03/20021716£15.49ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/04/20021685£15.21ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/05/20021655£14.94ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/06/20021624£14.66ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/07/20021594£14.38ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/08/20021563£14.11ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/09/20021532£13.83ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/10/20021502£13.55ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/11/20021471£13.27ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/12/20021441£13.00ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/01/20031410£12.72ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/02/20031379£12.44ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/03/20031351£12.19ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/04/20031320£11.91ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/05/20031290£11.64ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/06/20031259£11.36ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/07/20031229£11.09ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/08/20031198£10.81ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/09/20031167£10.53ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/10/20031137£10.26ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/11/20031106£9.98ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/12/20031076£9.71ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/01/20041045£9.43ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/02/20041014£9.15ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/03/2004985£8.89CLEARED TRANSACTION£20.0026/04/2004948£4.17CLEARED TRANSACTION£20.0026/04/2004948£4.17UNPAID DD CHARGE£32.0026/04/2004948£6.67ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/05/2004924£8.34ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/06/2004893£8.06ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/07/2004863£7.79ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/08/2004832£7.51ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/09/2004801£7.23UNPAID DD CHARGE£32.0025/10/2004766£5.39UNPAID DD CHARGE£32.0021/01/2005678£4.77CLEARED TRANSACTION£20.0025/01/2005674£2.97CLEARED TRANSACTION£20.0003/02/2005665£2.93UNPAID DD CHARGE£32.0004/02/2005664£4.67CLEARED TRANSACTION£30.0029/03/2005611£4.03CLEARED TRANSACTION£30.0005/04/2005604£3.99UNPAID DD CHARGE£32.0025/04/2005584£4.11£2,285.40£730.89£3,016.29

The claim is an estimated one, they never complied with my data protection request, and only ever sent 12 months of statements to me. I have (I think) 18 statements and have based my calculations/estimations on those 18 statements. ie: 18 months statements with 738.50 of charges, so 738.50 divided by 18 = 41.00.

In my Particulars of Claim, I have put:

Accordingly the claimant claims:-

a. The return of amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £2285.40 and any interest charged theron.

b. Court Costs

c. Interest of £703.74 under section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached schedule of charges.

 

Hope this makes sense. Thanks so much for your help, trying to concentrate on this with 2 screaming little ones doesn't help!

[tai24903]

Not sure why my spreadsheet has come out as gobbledy gook.............????

[tai24903]

In Respect of:AmountDate IncurredDays since offenceInterest 8% APRESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/07/20002324£20.97ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/08/20002293£20.69ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/09/20002262£20.41ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/10/20002232£20.14ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/11/20002201£19.86UNPAID DD CHARGE£30.0016/12/20002175£14.36ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/01/20012140£19.31ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/02/20012109£19.03ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/03/20012081£18.78ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/04/20012050£18.50ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/05/20012020£18.23ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/06/20011989£17.95ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/07/20011959£17.68ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/08/20011928£17.40OVER OD LIMIT£16.5003/10/20011884£6.84UNPAID DD CHARGE£30.0015/10/20011872£12.36OVER OD LIMIT£16.5011/11/20011845£6.70OVER OD LIMIT£16.5006/12/20011820£6.61UNPAID DD CHARGE£30.0015/12/20011811£11.95ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/01/20021775£16.02ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/02/20021744£15.74ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/03/20021716£15.49ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/04/20021685£15.21ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/05/20021655£14.94ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/06/20021624£14.66ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/07/20021594£14.38ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/08/20021563£14.11ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/09/20021532£13.83ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/10/20021502£13.55ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/11/20021471£13.27ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/12/20021441£13.00ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/01/20031410£12.72ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/02/20031379£12.44ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/03/20031351£12.19ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/04/20031320£11.91ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/05/20031290£11.64ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/06/20031259£11.36ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/07/20031229£11.09ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/08/20031198£10.81ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/09/20031167£10.53ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/10/20031137£10.26ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/11/20031106£9.98ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/12/20031076£9.71ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/01/20041045£9.43ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/02/20041014£9.15ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/03/2004985£8.89CLEARED TRANSACTION£20.0026/04/2004948£4.17CLEARED TRANSACTION£20.0026/04/2004948£4.17UNPAID DD CHARGE£32.0026/04/2004948£6.67ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/05/2004924£8.34ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/06/2004893£8.06ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/07/2004863£7.79ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/08/2004832£7.51ESTIMATED CHARGE£41.0220/09/2004801£7.23UNPAID DD CHARGE£32.0025/10/2004766£5.39UNPAID DD CHARGE£32.0021/01/2005678£4.77CLEARED TRANSACTION£20.0025/01/2005674£2.97CLEARED TRANSACTION£20.0003/02/2005665£2.93UNPAID DD CHARGE£32.0004/02/2005664£4.67CLEARED TRANSACTION£30.0029/03/2005611£4.03CLEARED TRANSACTION£30.0005/04/2005604£3.99UNPAID DD CHARGE£32.0025/04/2005584£4.11£2,285.40£730.89£3,016.29

[tai24903]

I've tried again, don't know what I'm doing wrong.........

[tai24903]

Sorry obviously never read the foot of your reply........stressed mum!

[tai24903]

Excellent - thanks guys! I think I'll ask to remove it. Makes my life a little simpler right now.

Also, I'm a bit concerned that my schedule of charges I gave the court is different to the one I sent Abbey in my LBA.

Since sending it to Abbey, they refunded 315.00 of charges which I removed from the most recent charges on the schedule I submitted to court.

Do I need to mention this. I'm thinking that I had 18 statements with 738.50 of charges, 738.50 divided by 18 = 41.02. But on the schedule I sent to the court some of those 738.50 charges were removed to deduct the refund they made into my account, so if the judge looks at it he'll wonder where I got 738.50 from. Does this make sense????

[tai24903]

Oh well, I've returned the details they've requested and sent a copy to Abbey as well.(both by recorded del)

I guess I'll wait to hear what they come up with next.

[tai24903]

Received Notice of Trial Date in post dated 21 Dec. Court date set for 8 Feb 2007.

The timetable included states that both parties shall serve on each other copies of their evidence. Can someone verify what I need to send other than the 18 months statements I have in my possession. (the rest is based on estimation as they've never supplied requested statements)

The timetable also states that I need to deliver the 'bundle' at least a week before the court date.

Once I've sent Abbey my evidence, should I contact them to try and reach settlement out of court?

Its making me very nervous.....

Thanks

[tai24903]

Thanks Karnevil

Can you just verify for me. In the order the court sent it states:

 

The parties shall serve on each other within 3 weeks of the service of this order copies of their evidence and bring the original evidence to the trial. The parties may not rely on evidence which has not been served in accordance with this order without the court's permission

 

Further down the order:

 

The claimant shall deliver to the court and the defendant at least a week in advance a bundle for use at the trial, clearly marked with the case name and reference and the trail date and containing copies of the parties' statements of case, any orders made by the court (including this one), the parties' evidence and any statements in date order with numbered pages fastened so that they can be turned and read easily.

 

I'm clear on what I include in the court bundle, but first it says I need to send my evidence to Abbey. Am I right in assuming its only the statements I need send to them with a covering letter or shall I just send the whole court bundle to them? and the court now.

 

Sorry if I'm just confusing things and making it difficult when there is so much help and info on the site.

Thanks

[tai24903]

Sure.

 

Upon reading the Ex parte application

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. See District Judges order attached.

 

ORDER

Timetable for a small claim

THE COURT DIRECTS/by consent that:

1. The case shall be allocated to the small claims track;

AND THE COURT FURTHER DIRECTS of its own initiative that:

2. The parties prepare for the trial by taking the steps indicated by ticks in the boxes below;

The parties shall serve on each other within 3 weeks of the service of this order copies of their evidence and bring the original evidence to the trial. The parties may not rely on evidence which has not been served in accordance with this order without the court's permission

 

The parties shall try to agree any amounts claimed

 

The parties may not rely on expert evidence without the courts permission

 

The parties may apply for further or other directions after seeking each other's consent, unless impracticable;

 

The claimant shall deliver to the court and the defendant at least a week in advance a bundle for use at the trial, clearly marked with the case name and reference and the trail date and containing copies of the parties' statements of case, any orders made by the court (including this one), the parties' evidence and any statements in date order with numbered pages fastened so that they can be turned and read easily.

 

3. This case shall be tried abefore a district or deputy district judge at this court on the earliest convenient date a least 5 weeks after the service of this order. The time-estimate for the trial (which includes time for the judge to consider the papers breifly beforehand and deliver a short judgement afterwards) is 1 hour. Notice of the date fixed for trial accompanies this order;

 

4. The parties shall inform the court at once if they settle;

 

5. A party affected by an order made of the court's own initiative may apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of service.

 

Trial date has been set for 8 February.

Thanks