Gearbox Bearing failure - Warranty wont pay

[craig2280]

I bought a 2004 Audi A4 19 days ago from a "trader" in London. 2 days ago it started making a whining noise and after taking it to an Audi dealership I was told it needed a new gearbox as it was beyond economical repair. I took the car to a gearbox specialist who stated it was the main bearing and the gearbox could be repaired for £900, which was alot cheaper than the £3000 Audi quoted for a new box.

 

The car has covered 44K miles, and was bought with a full Audi service history, with the last service carried out 5K miles ago. I have covered under 1K miles since bought.

 

The car came with a 6 month warranty with a company called APA. The booklet clearly states that gearbox bearings are covered, however the warranty company has refused the claim stating case hardening which subsequently made the bearing fail is wear and tear and that they would not cover it.

 

I understand from other posts that I could claim back from the "trader" (1 man band) under SOGA however he is on holiday for 2 weeks and I do not want to reject the car as I like it! My main issue is the warranty company. Surely using their logic any claim made would never be paid out as they can state wear and tear on anything!

 

Where do I stand?

[BankFodder]

I think that you need to find out what case hardening is and how long it would be before it is normally expected to happen.

 

44k miles doesn't seem a lot to me for an Audi. You should start surfing the web and also talking to Audi about it.

Also, how do you know that it is case hardening? Has anyone other than the insurers said this? Who are the warranty company anyway?

 

If you do end up suing, I would sue the warranty company and the seller jointly.

[craig2280]

Thanks for the reply.

 

The independent gearbox specialist I took the car to stripped the gearbox and stated it was "case hardening". I was told by the warranty company that this would be needed to be done to find out the exact problem and before they would agree to the claim.

 

The engineer who stripped it has stated that this is not normal wear and tear, and at 44k miles this should not happen or at all. I had a 1997 A4 that had covered over 160k miles with no problem at all with the gearbox.

 

The warranty company is called APA, and although I did not pay extra for the 6 month warranty it was a factor in the price paid for the car.

 

I am having the car fixed and I will have to pick up the bill initially, but will this have an effect with regards to the seller? Obviously I am not giving him the chance to rectify the problem himself even though this would be a problem as I am in Plymouth and he is in London and he is out of the country for 2 weeks?

[Conniff]

Although you don't want the seller to do the repairs, and I don't blame you, he should be given first chance. You say you have not yet contacted the seller so he is unaware of the problem and you really needed a dialogue with him as first call.

 

Having said that, for case hardening to fail at such a low mileage would be down to excessive heat (low or incorrect oil, but the gearbox specialist would have mentioned this), or faulty manufacture.

 

The warranty company cannot claim fair wear and tear on a bearing failure at that mileage.

 

Have they sent an engineer to examin the bearing? they must as they cannot just make suppositions or guesses at the reason for failure.

 

Did you get an official workshop quote complete with stamp etc to send them a copy of? If so, send them another copy, quoting the clause in the warranty paperwork that says the gearbox bearings are covered, and ask them again to reimburse you the costs.

If they still refuse, then you send them another letter headed 'Letter Before Action' and again ask them to reimburse your costs.

 

You should, of course, only send a letter before action if you are willing to go to court to reclaim the repair costs.

 

Always make any correspondence special delivery or recorded delivery.

 

P.S. Case hardening is making the outside of the bearing wear surfaces super hard by heating and droping into a high carbon case hardening compound, the parts are then heated again and plunged into cold water.

This means the outer surface is very hard but the internal parts remain relatively soft.

Edited March 6, 2009 by Conniff

[craig2280]

Hi Conniff, thanks for the reply.

 

The warranty company have not sent an engineer to examine the gearbox or bearing. Once it had been stripped and the problem established the workshop rang the warranty company and explained the problem and to get authorisation to carry on the work. The warranty company then stated that they would not pay out for this work as it was "wear and tear" and was not covered.

 

I then rang them myself to ask why when bearings are clearly stated as covered under the policy. They kept stating wear and tear and they would not cover it and in the end they simply hung up the phone on me!

 

The workshop and engineer are happy to supply a report stating this is not due to wear and tear, and so I will take this to court if necessary.

 

With regards to the seller, as he is out of the country I was unable to contact him, however a recorded delivery letter was sent to him yesterday so he can read on his return.

[Conniff]

I would carry on down the warranty route.

 

Get a letterheaded invoice from the gearbox specialist and send the warranty company a copy with a demand for payment.

As they have already refused to pay, have not sent an engineer to look at it, I would make this the Letter Before Action.

 

Tell them in the letter that you will also be claiming back the court fees.

 

Taking this path first does not negate any claim against the dealer or the finance company it it is financed.

.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Conniff

[craig2280]

Having spoken to a supervisor at the warranty company (APA), I have been informed that they do not supply the warranty they only handle the administration of the warranty for the dealer. This seems to be another way the wriggle out of any potential further action.

[Conniff]

Do you have paperwork for this warranty contract? Where does it say the gearbox is covered?

 

Ok, just read your first post again.

 

Did you pay for the warranty or was it given as part of the deal?

 

If it was a free warranty, the dealer must have paid the premium.

 

Can you quote the exact wording it says in the warranty book.

[craig2280]

I have just got the warranty book/schedule from the car.

It states

 

"Parts Included;

 

Manual gearbox

Internal gears, synchromesh hubs, selectors, shafts, bearings and bushes and transfer gears (excluding oil leaks)."

 

It also states;

 

"Mechanical Breakdown: is the failure of an item included under the parts listed causing a sudden stoppage of function, for a reason other than wear and tear, normal deterioration or negligence. Damage caused by the effect of overheating or abuse is not regarded as a mechanical breakdown under the terms of this Agreement".

 

APA state the case hardening is not sudden mechanical breakdown and therefore is not covered.

 

The warranty was provided by the dealer and I did not pay extra.

[Conniff]

I don't think you have anything to worry about here Craig, it's in black and white and my engineering degree and experience says that the case hardening should not have failed at that low mileage.

 

Do you have the affected parts?

 

I don't suppose the dealer is back off his holiday yet?

[craig2280]

They actually gave me the bearing when I went to collect the warranty booklet.

 

I have tried calling the dealer twice today and have left a message. His answerphone message states he will be back on 14th.

 

I appreciate your input and advice. I do not know anything about case hardening apart from what you have said above, but I can see the damage on the bearing.

 

I did want to send a Letter Before Action to APA however from what they have said and the wording in the booklet, it would seem the warranty policy is between myself and the dealer. I will send him a recorded letter which he will get on his return.

[Conniff]

You are probably correct in thinking that it will be between you and the dealer as he paid for it, which shows he was pretty confident on the cars condition.

 

It looks like he will be the one to claim from APA. He should reimburse you and take just a small fee for doing the admin work.

 

It's the tenth today, so it would be as well to wait until he has returned and without any initial demands on him, see what he has to say.

 

Who were the gearbox specialist you used in Plymouth?

[craig2280]

The gearbox specialist is DJ Transmissions.

The dealer has offered £400 to settle this dispute which I have rejected. I am waiting for him to get back to me today with his final offer. If this is not acceptable then I shall go to court and claim the full cost of the repair.

I believe that this dispute will fall under the Sales Of Goods Act regarding "fit for purpose" however the dealer does not beleive this to be the case.

[raydetinu]

DJ transmissions - good firm, I have used in the past, very knowledgeable not cheap but value certainly.

[Conniff]

Had quite a few dealings with DJ, they really are the expert in this field and been in it a long time.

 

The dealer would say this, he is trying to minimise his losses which any sensible business should do. Stick to your guns, a car without a gearbox is definately 'not fit for purpose'.

[Conniff]

Has the seller responded yet Craig?

 

Remember it is up to the dealer to prove the car was not faulty when he sold it and not you prove it was.

[craig2280]

Hi Conniff. I have come to a financial agreement with the seller. I also contacted Audi Germany with my concerns regarding the failure of this part at this mileage. Audi responded and were prepared to make a contribution towards the repair if it was carried out at an Audi garage.

[Conniff]

As long as you are happy with the outcome.

If you are still out of pocket however, you should put a claim into the warranty company for the remainder, you have nothing to lose.

[danpiano]

Hi. I found this thread searching about warranties.

Just wanted some advice:

I have a 'silver warranTy' with AutoProtect, and my Honda civic (03 reg, 71,000) has started to make a loud whirring noise when in neutral. When clutch is put down, it stops.

After some research, it seems this is a big problem with Honda Civics of that generation (so much so that Honda issued an extended warrany so people get the bearings replaced- but only 2004 cars onwards)

So I called APA and told them that I'm having trouble getting it in gear and about the noise. He said take it to your garage, get them to strip and report and then we will say whether we'll pay. Problem is, that just taking the gearbox out and putting it back can be around 6 hours of labour plus VAT, and if they refuse to pay due to 'wear and tear' then I obviusly have to fork out that money and then the possible repair.

 

Honda said that it's caused by 'decceleration torque in the main shaft resulting in high stress on main shaft bearings' So would the broken bearing have been caused by 'wear and tear' or a fault?

 

Local garage said they had something similar with a 'gold' warranty and they refused to pay.

 

From what I've read, they're a bunch of con artists who rarely pay out on anything. It cost £200 for the year, so I think they have the right to provide a decent service.

 

I'd appreciate any advice from anyone who's had dealings with them - good/bad, and maybe how I should play it. Thanks

Dan

[craig2280]

I can guarantee that if you go ahead and get the problem looked at Auto Protect will deny your claim for one reason or another which leaves you with picking up the bill for the garage to investigate.

After my issues with them I came to the conclusion that they warranties really are not worth the paper they are written on. Auto Protect have so many get out clauses within the policy I would be surprised if anyone has had a claim granted!

I would contact Honda UK and see if they will make a contribution towards the repair, especially if its a known problem. Will not hurt asking.

If Honda are no help I would suggest going to a garage that you know and trust. Make the claim and see what AutoProtect say.

[danpiano]

Thanks for your advice.

It's beyond belief that these companies still exist. Everything is wear and tear when it suits them. Bearings are either covered or not in my opinion. Afraid now that if i don't go ahead this week after calling them, (can't afford it right now should I have to pay) that when I go back to it in a few months they'll say- You called us about this in October and should have done it then.

 

I'll try Honda anyway. Head office I suppose?

 

Thanks again.

Dan

[craig2280]

I am also suprised they get away with it. Wear and tear could cover anything and everything in their eyes! I dont know exactly how they work but I would think they have it logged now and if you do not go ahead and come back to it later it will give them another excuse not to grant the claim.

In my case I contacted Audi UK who were willing to contribute if I had the work done at an Audi dealer.

Good luck.