Northern Rock County Court Claim Form

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

I am no legal expert and can only give you some basic knowledge.

 

Welcome to the cag site and someone on here will give you plenty of advice.

 

To start with they issue the claim on the 22nd Jan and you did not recieve it until the 5th posted on the 4th .

 

Was this form sent from the court or wallis ?

 

Standard procedure of when you recieve your form from the courts you have to reply within 14 days.

 

Now it looks like you only have until wednesday 11th to reply to the courts. (someone could correct me if i am wrong)

 

Your debt for the loan is enforcable but i did notice you have ticked the box for loan protection. Did you know you have ticked this box because this is a ppi and alot of people have claimed money back through mis selling.

 

Are you a home owner.

 

Are you with a debt management company.

 

Also anybody else can give starbar advice regading the dates for filling the form in because it seems to be a stich up from either Wallis or the courts.

 

Kind Regards

 

Womble

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

Now if you admit the whole of the claim the court in Gateshead will decide in favour of the claimant -Nr. Case won !

You will then have to pay them the full amount and for which you cant pay.

 

To defend it from the start you will be in control of where the case can be moved to i.e-your local county court and you then can go through all the avenues of what you owe and if the Nr have done the proper procedure.

 

Also the ratwest will be going gun blazes for a charging order against your property and you need to be in court to defend it.

 

please read my thread

 

Womble 72/Northern Rock 29k Debt - Court looming **WON*****.

 

You can fight it. Ok the agreement is enforcable but you need to be in your local court thrashing out payment offers of what you can afford and also stop them with a charging order against your property.

 

So defend all of the case and von has said the default notice is iffy but my knowledge on default notices are sparse.

 

There are many caggers on here who will guide you and i will be one of them. Just read my thread and i was exactly the same why should i defend "i do owe them the money" but you need to be in control of the situation.

 

Kind Regards

 

Womble

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

Fill in the aos form with DEFEND all of the claim and send recorded.

 

We need to then wait to see what Nr send to you.

 

Now the more experianced caggers can check your default notice.

 

Did you know that you agreed to the protected insurance on the loan ?

 

Have you any other debts (apart from NR)

[womble72]

Have they ever harrassed you by phone at work or sending postcards through the post.

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

My knowledge on default letters is rubbish but hold in there and see if anybody else can help.

 

We need to make sure you get your defence in by the first week of March.

 

Have you read Von Greenbach thread. The judge was a ahole so these are the pitfalls if you dont defend the case from the start.

 

They could be a good defence we can use from another member who needed one by last Friday.

 

Dont panic and see if anybody can give you advice from what Wallers have sent you. I think that they have not even defaulted you to start withso thats a good thing.

[womble72]

This was taken from another member called surfacea,gentx20's.

 

DEFENCE

 

1 The Defendant admits entering into an agreement with Northern Rock Bank Limited and which was regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act). No admissions are made as to the terms, conditions or other provisions of the agreement and the extent to which Northern Rock Bank Limited may have complied therewith and the extent to which the Defendant may not have complied therewith. Further and alternatively, it is denied that the agreement was properly executed and/or is now enforceable in whole or in part.

 

2 It is denied that the Claimant served upon the Defendant a default notice or any default notice pursuant to section 87(1) of The Act and which was in prescribed form and compliant with the provisions of section 88 of the Act.

 

3 Without prejudice to the generality of the Defendant’s contentions set out at paragraph 1, the Defendant avers Northern Rock Bank Limited terminated the agreement and pursuant to termination that the Claimant has since made demand of the Defendant for the payment of money the subject of this claim.

 

4 Incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions. It is denied (if it be alleged) that Northern Rock Bank Limited has incurred any such fees and charges, alternatively that such fees and charges if incurred accurately represent sums lost by Northern Rock Bank Limited by reason of any breach on the part of the Defendant. Alternatively, the Defendant avers the incorporation of such claims is penal and unenforceable at law.

 

5 Further and in any event, by reason of the matters set out at paragraph 2 of this Defence and the requirements of section 87(1) of the Act, the steps taken by Northern Rock Bank Limited and identified at paragraph 3 hereof were steps which neither were entitled to take.

 

6 In the circumstances the Claimant has no entitlement to claim any of the relief now sought by its claim.

 

7 The Claimant’s claim to be entitled to £xxx.xx, to interest or to any other sum is denied.

 

I BELIEVE THAT THE CONTENTS OF THIS DEFENCE ARE TRUE.

 

Signed:

Dated:

 

 

This part is from Von Greenbach.

 

 

Northern Rock may well be after a charging order

 

Get your partner to send an objection letter when you file your defense

 

"I would be grateful if this letter could be placed before the Judge at the hearing on xxxxx 2009.

 

I object to a charging order being placed in that I have a beneficial interest in that I jointly own this property.

 

When the house was purchased I solely paid the deposit and I am maintaining the mortgage payments. In the present economic climate and due to the fact there are a number of secured creditors we at the present time have negative equity.

 

Yours sincerely"

 

 

Now that would be your defence and the covering letter regarding the charging order.

 

Let me double check with another member to see if this is ok.

[womble72]

ok the debt is enforcable but if we can put together a defence on the default issue and when starbar gets to court he can come to an arrangement with a payment he can afford with the judge.

[womble72]

This is part of my defence with my case last year with the default notice.

 

Can it be edited to suit starbar case ?

 

DEFAULT NOTICE

 

23. I will refer in this section to the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 1983 No 1561 as amended (“Default Regulations”)

 

24. Reg (2) of the Default Regulations states the requirement of a default notice

(2) Any notice to be given by a creditor or owner in relation to a regulated agreement to a debtor or hirer under section

87(1) of the Act (which relates to the necessity to serve a default notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section

88 before taking certain action by reason of any breach of the agreement by the debtor or hirer) shall contain--

(a) a statement that the notice is a default notice served under section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

(b) the information set out in paragraphs 1 to 3, 6 and 8 of Schedule 2 to these Regulations; and

© statements in the form specified in paragraphs 4, 5, 7 and 9 to 11 of that Schedule.

25. Reg (5) and (6) of the Default Regulations lay out presentation requirements for a default notice.

 

26. With regard to the default notice, I would quote paragraph 3 of schedule 2:

3

A specification of:--

(a) the provision of the agreement alleged to have been breached; and

(b) the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement, specifying clearly the matters complained of; and either

© if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date, being a date [not less than

fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which that action is to be taken; or

(d) if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach and

the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which it is to be paid.

27 The creditor in the default notice states that In accordance with clause 4 of my terms and conditions, that monthly payments have not been maintained, and that arrears of £***,**** are now outstanding.

 

28. I deny that I have breached clause 4 of the agreement which states

4. Rebate on Early Settlement

If the outstanding balance of the Total Amount Payable is repaid early you may be entitled to a rebate of charges. Details are available from Northern Rock personal Loans – Selectapost 19,

Rotherham

,

S97 3GD

29. I further put the claimant to strict proof

 

29.1 that the amount of any arrears is correct and,

 

29.2 that the amount of any balance on the agreement is correct, and that the failure to include the amount of any rebate in the default notice doesn’t invalidate the said notice under paragraph 8 of the Default Regulations

8

Where a sum of money is required to be paid under the notice,

(a) the amount of the sum before deducting the amount of any rebate on early settlement;

(b) where any rebate on early settlement is allowable under the agreement or by virtue of section 95 of the Act--

(i) the amount of the rebate allowable calculated on the assumption that early settlement takes place on the date

specified in the notice for earlier payment of the sum; and

(ii) the total amount to be paid after taking into account the amount of any rebate on early settlement, namely the

difference between the amount shown in paragraph (a) above and the amount shown in sub-paragraph (i).

30. I particularly note that the significance of failing to include the rebate in any default / court claim is that under term 5 ii it would enable Northern Rock to charge interest from the date of judgement, not only on the principal sum owing, but also on interest that it would have accrued over the entire life of the agreement.

 

31. The consequence of a incorrect default notice are laid out in s87(1) of the consumer credit act 1974:

87.

Need for default notice.

— (1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice ”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,—

(a) to terminate the agreement, or

(b) to demand earlier payment of any sum, or

…

32. Consequently, in the absence of a valid default notice, I deny the claimant has any right to demand earlier payment of any sum, or terminate the agreement.

 

33. I am aware this may seem very technical law – indeed it is very dry – and may seem almost trivial. My understanding is that that parliament and the courts implemented such strict requirements as to the contents and form of a default notice and the requirement of such a notice to be exactly adhered to is that it must be crystal clear to the debtor what the nature of the default is, how much is outstanding, what the nature of the breach is, and how to rectify it.

 

34. I do not need to tell the court that the consequences of a default – even if not taken on to court– are that the debtor may find it impossible to get reasonably priced credit, purchase a home, or carry out normal daily living. In the case of court enforcement, a default could lead to bankruptcy or the loss of your home.

 

35 It is denied that any accurate Default Notice in the prescribed format was received and I put the Claimant to strict proof that said document was accurate.

 

36 Accordingly I put the Claimant to strict proof that every charge and collection charge made to the account was valid and lawful. I aver that any default notice sent would have included these charges.

 

37 I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach. If the claimant sent a default notice that includes unlawful charges, this default notice is invalid under English law for the reason that it is inaccurate and so the claimant may not seek to enforce this debt.

[womble72]

Starbar has stated that he was not mis sold a PPi.

 

It was issued in Gateshead and there was two pages with the poc.

 

Which was this.

 

 

County Court Claim Form

 

Particulars of claim page 1

Particulars of claim page 2

 

Now its down to Starbar to state if the figures are correct.

 

He recieved the paperwork on the 5th Feb.

[womble72]

What was in your defence ?

 

Your defence needed to be in by the 1st week of March.

[womble72]

Starbar only recieved the termination letter through his cpr request.

 

The Nr did not send him one before the request.

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

You will need to appear on the court date.

 

Is the case being heared at your local county court ?

 

Now i remember that you have an enforcable loan agreement but the default notice was not correctly set out due to lack of time to rectify the agreement.

 

The reason you needed to defend from the start was that you needed the case to be brought to your local court and come to a agreement with what you can only afford with the judge.

 

The second battle is with a charging order against your home and that is the most important fact.

 

Arguements when you are in court to defend the CO.

 

(1)joint mortgage - is this fair to be placed a co if your spouse has joint rights on the property.

 

(2)unfair towards your other creditors (have they been notified by the NR)

 

(3)How much equity do you have ? (negative equity is no good for the NR)

 

My main point of view is that this is an unsecure loan and that how it should stand.

 

The judge will know you have made token payments and will be allowed to carry on but it is the charging order you will need to defend.

 

I wished i could give you more positive advice but you do have a written agreement. Ok the default notice is dodgy and a maybe a another cag member may help on that point but you need to go in person to court and show them you will not be bullied into a charging order.

 

When is the date and can anybody go with you for support.

 

By the way i did win my battle last year with them but the sharks are coming back again against me and my friend i have the same problem as you an enforcable loan agreement.

 

The banking system is trying to drag as many people in the courts as possible to claw back bad debt via owning your property.

 

Keep your chin up

 

Womble

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

No they cant force to sell your house.

 

Also you could say it would be unfair that your partner should suffer for your money problem .

 

Also negative equity! It looks to me that the judge would probably not allow the Co because of that fact alone.

 

It costs a creditor £1,000 for a charging order on a property.

 

You have a dodgy default notice against you. Print off 42 man response regarding the default notice. You will need to argue the point in court that it was not set out correctly. The judge will see that there is a written agreement on the loan BUT you must persuade that a Co should only be enforced if you fail a payment on the CCJ set by the court.

 

The only problem with a Co is that you cant remortgage, they cant force you to sell.

 

I hope this helps.

[womble72]

Main Points on the day.

 

(1)Dress Smartly.

(2)Take a friend for morale support.

(3)All the paperwork in which you have recieved so far.

(4)It would be best to take a in/outgoing sheet for expenditure.

(5)List of all your creditors.

 

The outcome will be that you come to an arrangement with the court of a monthly payment scheme. That is why point 4 would be benifical. They cant take what you havent got. A dodgy default notice may be a lost cause with the judge because of the enforced agreement.

 

You could print this off and take with you and state that the Nr have failed to send a proper default notice.

 

The purpose of the default notice (DN) is to let you know what you need to do to put a delinquent account back in order – if you ignore the DN then the creditor will register a default with the credit reference agencies – they may also elect to terminate the agreement if you do not remedy any breach stated within it.

 

That is the main purpose of issuing a DN and it is a requirement of the CCA 1974 that when one is issued by the creditor it must be in the correct format – the format for DN’s is stated in the Consumer Credit (Enforcement. Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983.

 

If the creditor issues a DN that doesn’t comply with the regulations then that notice cannot be seen to be valid – it would be unfair on the debtor to allow a creditor to make any enforcement against the debtor on the back of the invalid DN and it would be a clear breach of the CCA 1974.

 

In your case – the creditor has issued a DN that doesn’t comply with the regs so this is a breach of s88 of the CCA 1974 – it is therefore invalid – they proceeded to terminate the account without issuing a compliant DN and this is a breach of s87(1) (a) of the CCA 1974.

 

Once an account/agreement has been terminated it cannot be un-terminated unless both parties to the agreement allow this - this is something I am sure that you won’t want to do. The creditor can terminate an agreement at any time but how they do so will affect their rights at the point of termination – that is the important bit.

 

So where this leaves the creditor is in a situation where they have terminated the agreement between you but have not done so in a manner that would allow them to recover the entire balance owing under the agreement – they can only demand that sum after issuing you with a valid DN.

 

Simply put – if they were to demand the balance from you (because you fell behind with payments) without issuing a DN you would be within your rights to ignore this request – if they then terminate the agreement they effectively lose the right to ever demand the full balance owing under the agreement.

 

A non compliant DN must be viewed as not satisfying the requirements of the act – effectively it is the same as not issuing one in the first place and the net result is the same as above.

 

The most the creditor could do would be to pursue you for the amount stated in the DN – however if that amount was not an accurate representation of the arrears at the time it was issued then you would have grounds to defend against that claim.

 

Are you just waiting for a court date now Starbar.

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

What day is it on ?

 

Im not to sure if the Nr will go for a Co on the day but strongly make your arguement stating that it is a un-secured loan.

 

Be assertive.

[womble72]

Good Luck for Wed.

 

Remember if they mention a Co give your points of why this should not happen.

 

Please keep me posted.

[womble72]

Good Luck for tomorrow Starbar.

 

I wished i could have done more to help.

 

All the Best.

 

Womble

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

How did you get on today in court.

[womble72]

Hi Starbar,

 

It is always best to defend the case from the start and that includes an enforced agreement.

 

Now you need to defend the Co. I think the law at the moment states that you need to default on the County court Payments before they could have a Co. You could use many arguements including a joint mortgage, unfair to other creditors. Have the Nr notified your other creditors? It is a un secured loan and that how the agreement should stand.

 

I am glad you feel better after today. Court can be a very scary place but you had a friendly judge and not a hostile solicitor. There are lots of people (including me) who have an enforced loan agreement and maybe they will drag me back into court one day. I am in the same boat and it is hard to use any sort of defence when the agreement is enforceable.

 

Enjoy the rest of tonight.

 

Womble:)