HCE Group Ltd charges: please advice

[babist]

Hi Babist

 

no. there is no requirment to supply that information on the doorstewp unless your are levying goods and then its a very basic breakdown and goes into no detail. Our offices will supply a breakdown of costs at no charge.

 

The creditor decides to transfer a case to high court. He sends payment for the transfer along with the CCJ and its sent to the high court for a look over to make sure its correct and within the limits to be able to transfer it and if it is they stamp it with the high court seal and send it back. the creditor decides which company of HCEO's to use and also which particular HCEO to use.

 

Hi bailiff,

 

I have read somewhere that the code of practice for HCEOs says that the HCEO shoudl provide to the debtor information on whet will be charged if a follow-up visit is required. is this true?

 

Assuming that the debtor has paid the judgement costs in full and he disagrees about the HCEO fees, can the HCEO levy goods to recover fees that have not been explained to the debtor despite asking for this verbally and in writing?

 

Also, transferring a case to high court, what do you think of the case where a HCEO company asks a creditor to do this in order to be able to receive more money from the debtor?

 

I appreciate your feedback on these issues. I am sure that not all bailiffs are the same and I am sure that you agree with me that bailiffs that are interested in increasing their income only at the expense of debtors who are willing to cooperate is at least, unethical!

 

Babist

[tomtubby]

 

Our attendance fee's (i spoke boss today to confirm this) are not set out by law. we have no ceiling on what we can charge like normal bailiffs. the lord chancellor sets a guide of £300max for residential and £400 for commercial, however these are not enforced for HCEO and therefore we can charge anything.

 

Where can I find a copy of this guide by the Lord Chancellor?????

[Guest Happy Contrails]

I second that request.

[Guest Thebailiff]

Where can I find a copy of this guide by the Lord Chancellor?????

 

Become a HCEO or AHCEO. the only place u have found it is during our training.

[scatz1972]

Become a HCEO or AHCEO. the only place u have found it is during our training.

 

That does sound a bit convenient....if that is true then we should be able to apply for a copy under the freedom of information act.:?

[Guest Thebailiff]

Hi bailiff,

 

I have read somewhere that the code of practice for HCEOs says that the HCEO shoudl provide to the debtor information on whet will be charged if a follow-up visit is required. is this true?

 

Assuming that the debtor has paid the judgement costs in full and he disagrees about the HCEO fees, can the HCEO levy goods to recover fees that have not been explained to the debtor despite asking for this verbally and in writing?

 

Also, transferring a case to high court, what do you think of the case where a HCEO company asks a creditor to do this in order to be able to receive more money from the debtor?

 

I appreciate your feedback on these issues. I am sure that not all bailiffs are the same and I am sure that you agree with me that bailiffs that are interested in increasing their income only at the expense of debtors who are willing to cooperate is at least, unethical!

 

Babist

 

Your first queston. Yes you are corrct. if a debtor askes what will happen if we reattend, we will inform him/her of the process and the fee's.

 

Your second question. Not normally as our costs are paid before any money owed goes to the claimane unless its a monthly payment plan in which case a small amount is taken from each payment to cover our fee's a little at a time.

 

your third question. A creditor will come to us and ask us to transfer a case to the high court for them. we are NOT alowed to enforce upon CCJ's.

 

Yes there are alot of bailiffs out there who try to make as much out of a debtor as possible. I for one dont as i am on a set wage ( i aminly work with eviction and return of goods to a creditor (writs of possesion) and writs of execution (fifa and possesion in one) and writs of delivery.

 

Most of the boys i work with are very honest and very good at what they do and i have never met one that add's extortionate charges.

 

Private bailiffs and county court bailiffs are another matter.

[Guest Thebailiff]

That does sound a bit convenient....if that is true then we should be able to apply for a copy under the freedom of information act.:?

 

I agree with you. i have been trying my hardest for 2 days now to find out where this is laid down. I have only been on this site for a few days now and did not worry about where the info came from before. I will do my best to find out where it is laid down, and i imagine they must be laid down in writing somewhere. as soon as i know, you will know. But you have to understand, I am trying to find this info out without ****ing of the bosses.

[scatz1972]

I agree with you. i have been trying my hardest for 2 days now to find out where this is laid down. I have only been on this site for a few days now and did not worry about where the info came from before. I will do my best to find out where it is laid down, and i imagine they must be laid down in writing somewhere. as soon as i know, you will know. But you have to understand, I am trying to find this info out without ****ing of the bosses.

 

Understood

[Guest Thebailiff]

Charge the fee set by legislation. Anything more and I could be criminally liable under Section 2 of the Fraud Act leaving me without a job.

 

Nobody forced you to be a bailiff.

 

No one in the company i work for charges otherwise and we are very carefull with our charges. But, we dont have a limit to the charges we can apply. We could charge £300 for an attendance and yet we rarely do that at all.

 

As for being a bailiff, no, no one forced me to do it, but its a job, its fun at times, heart breaking at times, very tough at times, very easy at times.

You think a bailiff just goes after money. what about chasing or gypsie, travellers and tinkers. what about kicking out squatters, evicting eco warriors. we do it all and for less money that a shelf stacker at tesco is on. yet im comfortable, im good with money, have no debts that are not managable and pay my bills on time evrytime, so i have no reason to fear the bailiff.

 

Lets try thios senario, what would you do if someone owed you money. say they owed you £200.000. How would you go about getting it back.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Become a HCEO or AHCEO. the only place u have found it is during our training.

 

In other words, there are no such rules. Pretending otherwise commits an offence under the Fraud Act. The prescribed HCEO 2004 fees are the maximum allowable.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Lets try thios senario, what would you do if someone owed you money. say they owed you £200.000. How would you go about getting it back.

 

Dont get into that position in the first place. If the debt is artificial then the legislation that created the debt on the debtors behalf needs looking at, its probably because the money never existed in the first place.

 

If you owe the bank £2,000 you might a have a problem. If you owe the £2m then the bank has a problem.

 

There is no law giving a bailiff carte-blanche rights to defraud a debtor with bogus fees, or indiscrimately make false statements to obtain money not lawfully owed.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

As for being a bailiff, no, no one forced me to do it, but its a job, its fun at times,

 

Not as fun as putting a bailiff in front of the judge stripping him of his certificate for committing fraud and receiving a nice payout from his bailiff bond.

[Guest Thebailiff]

Not as fun as putting a bailiff in front of the judge stripping him of his certificate for committing fraud and receiving a nice payout from his bailiff bond.

 

as for being a bailif, I am certificated but have yet to use that certificate so that does not come into the equation here does it. nothing the high court enforcement does is related to a bailif certificate. so nothing i do to a debtor is going to affect that certificate. the only time i would use it is for rent arrears if we have spare time to do it.

 

Also, can you show me the bit of legislation you have found that sais how much a HCEO can charge in fee's. I know what i have been taught, and i have seen nothing on here or online to prove otherwsise.

 

I agree however that a bailiff should be stripped of his licence if he seriously overcharges on his fee's as they have prescribed limits to stick to. As a AHCEO, we dont have limits, We charge what we feel is justified at the time and never once has my company backed down on any charges it has put in place as they are all legal and above board.

[Guest Thebailiff]

Dont get into that position in the first place. If the debt is artificial then the legislation that created the debt on the debtors behalf needs looking at, its probably because the money never existed in the first place.

 

If you owe the bank £2,000 you might a have a problem. If you owe the £2m then the bank has a problem.

 

There is no law giving a bailiff carte-blanche rights to defraud a debtor with bogus fees, or indiscrimately make false statements to obtain money not lawfully owed.

 

what are you on about. £200.000 is a common amount of money in this industry. ppl get a morgade aon a £1mill house, house prices plumet, his house is now worth £750.000, mortgage company reposses as house is worth less than mortgage, he as paid £50.000 so still owes the mortgage company £200.000. he did not see that coming, nor did the banks, nor did mortgage companies,nor did goverment.

 

How about a business, non ltd as he wantsto keep things personal Plus clients feel more secure using a business that is less likely to go under. A bad accident leaves him unable to run the business and staff walk out for whatever reason, or maybe, he is a sole trader with no employees, bills go unpaid as uncomplete work remians uncomplete, and clients refuse to pay anything. next thing he is £500,000 in debt. I have seen this stuff first hand so dont sit there all smug and talk about just not getting into these situations. If nobody took risks, we would still be living in caves. Some times the risk are too much and a business or individual fails leaving a trail of distruction. At the end of the day, he started with nothing, and he just has to restart with nothing.

 

Like i have said in an earlier post, if you want my advice just ask, but dont take the **** or i wont hang around to give whatever help i can. I risk my job being on here to try to help.

 

Also to put things into perspective, I had a warrant yesterday for £12mill and that was a guy with 2 employees selling properties around the world. Credit crucnh has cost him everything.

[Guest Thebailiff]

In other words, there are no such rules. Pretending otherwise commits an offence under the Fraud Act. The prescribed HCEO 2004 fees are the maximum allowable.

 

oh yeah, sorry, sherriffs and HCEO have been acting completely outside the law for hundreds of years and no one but you has picked up on that. get a life. Its that we are not governed as tightly as private bailiffs and county court bailiffs becasue of the difference in jobs.

[Guest Thebailiff]

Understood

 

thanks

 

The bailiff

[tomtubby]

I agree with you. i have been trying my hardest for 2 days now to find out where this is laid down. I have only been on this site for a few days now and did not worry about where the info came from before. I will do my best to find out where it is laid down, and i imagine they must be laid down in writing somewhere. as soon as i know, you will know. But you have to understand, I am trying to find this info out without ****ing of the bosses.

 

 

If you can find this it would be very useful !!

 

[EDIT]. On average we used to have around one query A WEEK concerning a visit from an HCEO. However, since Christmas it is now around a QUARTER of all enquiries.....and the fees are simply off the scale.

 

As an example, I cannot understand how an HCEO can possibly justify charging a 1st visit fee of £985 on a debt of £1,100 !!! We had this query today!!

 

What is also very worrying was that for each query that we received yesterday, the police had been called out.

 

I am strongly of the belief that HCEO's need much tougher regulation.....that is not meant as a personal attack on you..but of the industry in general.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Also, can you show me the bit of legislation you have found that sais how much a HCEO can charge in fee's. I know what i have been taught, and i have seen nothing on here or online to prove otherwsise.

 

For debts pronounced in the high court, bailiff can fees according to Schedule 3 of Regulation 13 of The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004

 

For debts pronounced in the county court and transferred up to the high court for enforcement only the baililiff charges his fees according to County Court Fees Order(Amended 1994) 1982.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

what are you on about. £200.000 is a common amount of money in this industry. ppl get a morgade aon a £1mill house, house prices plumet, his house is now worth £750.000, mortgage company reposses as house is worth less than mortgage.

 

Im not a lawyer of a businessman but anyone with a brain knows a bailiff cannot take what the debtor doesnt have. Where a property is available - commercial or otherwise - an application under the Charging Orders Act is the way to go. Lenders know the risks.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

oh yeah, sorry, sherriffs and HCEO have been acting completely outside the law for hundreds of years and no one but you has picked up on that. get a life.

 

HCEO's have only been around since 15 March 2004, thats hardly hundreds of years.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Also to put things into perspective, I had a warrant yesterday for £12mill and that was a guy with 2 employees selling properties around the world. Credit crucnh has cost him everything.

 

I doubt a bailiff retained in a firm would ever see a job remotely like that.

 

High-yield jobs are attended by the firms directors, they'd never hand it down. Bailiffs retained by a firm are left with the rubbish, low-income debtors going up tower-blocks collecting CCJ's parking tickets and council tax. Most of these fall at the first hurdle with gone aways & no goods ending up in the bin.

[Guest Thebailiff]

HCEO's have only been around since 15 March 2004, thats hardly hundreds of years.

 

Read my quote again. SHERIFFS and hceo officers have been around for hundredsof years, HCEO recently but before that they were known as sherrifs. Man, your turning out to be a bit of a troll.

[Guest Thebailiff]

Im not a lawyer of a businessman but anyone with a brain knows a bailiff cannot take what the debtor doesnt have. Where a property is available - commercial or otherwise - an application under the Charging Orders Act is the way to go. Lenders know the risks.

 

But the point is, no one knows what he has untill the bailiff goes and finds him. If we find he has a house and he owns it then its returned to sols to have a charging order put on it.

[Guest Thebailiff]

I doubt a bailiff retained in a firm would ever see a job remotely like that.

 

High-yield jobs are attended by the firms directors, they'd never hand it down. Bailiffs retained by a firm are left with the rubbish, low-income debtors going up tower-blocks collecting CCJ's parking tickets and council tax. Most of these fall at the first hurdle with gone aways & no goods ending up in the bin.

 

Again (your starting to get on my nerves by not reading previous comments) i am not a bailiff. And in our company, there are 2 HCEO and about 50 Assistant HCEO. The HCEO are not going to get up and do every job over £50.000 themselves are they. they will have looked at this case and decided it just needed normal visiting. If its something special or delicate then yes they would or if i had trouble they may take over. But theres not much more thewy can do that i cant do. I have there powers to use. they just have more knowledge and experience. And yes i do see my job like that. Like i have said before in other thread now. i dont work on commision based wages. i take home a flat wage each month so it does not affect me what i add on in charges.

[Guest Thebailiff]

Again (your starting to get on my nerves by not reading previous comments) i am not a bailiff. And in our company, there are 2 HCEO and about 50 Assistant HCEO. The HCEO are not going to get up and do every job over £50.000 themselves are they. they will have looked at this case and decided it just needed normal visiting. If its something special or delicate then yes they would or if i had trouble they may take over. But theres not much more thewy can do that i cant do. I have there powers to use. they just have more knowledge and experience. And yes i do see my job like that. Like i have said before in other thread now. i dont work on commision based wages. i take home a flat wage each month so it does not affect me what i add on in charges.

 

Plus i have never done coucil tax or parking tickets or magi fines and no one in my company does. The only thing we do on that sort of level is carry out the arrest warrants.