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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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Lorraine vs. Argos


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as I'm typing this, I'm trying not to burst out crying again as well as trying to repress the urge to be physically sick.:Cry::cry::Cry: I'm desperately in need of some advice

 

my story begins a few months ago, when I bought an external hard drive from Argos for my computer (this point isn't strictly relevant, but it gives you an idea of my balance), for £74.99. The balance on the card was £0.00. I had been paying off about £5-10 a month, but the minimum payment was less than £2.50. I'll put my hands up at this point and say i've got a memory like a sieve...but when you're trying to juggle a big mortgage, council tax, and other major household bills by yourself I'd defy anyone not to let the odd thing slip occasionally. Unfortunately in my case, it was a couple of Argos payments. Not for hundreds of pounds, to clear a balance of thousands- but a

When I got the 'first' statement saying that they'd charged me £12, I emailed them to point out my position on such charges and what I knew about the fairness of them, and asked that they refund it. They refused, saying that I'd missed a payment a couple of months before, and that they'd 'had' to charge me for that as well (remember-

 

So in summary-

An original balance of £74.99

A balance that now should be less than £30

2 missed payments of

total charges of £60

default notice

 

Sorry if I've rambled on a bit, but I'm really, really distressed by this. I've not got a clue what's going on, or what to do next. If I try ringing someone in Customer SVCS about what's going on, I'll only end up yelling and getting hysterical down the phone to someone who can't do anything and most probably doesn't care. I know only too well what the physical symptoms of stress are, they've caused me time off work in the past. All this is doing is causing a flare up. If someone here can give me help, advice and support I would be extremely grateful- before I get layed out by the situation. If I owed a small fortune I could perhaps understand it all a little. But I don't.:(

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I'd just like to add a couple more points... the payment I sent on the 17th November included with it the initial letter in the reclaim process. I didn't send it recorded as I thought that they couldn't claim non-receipt of the letter without not processing my payment. I also emailed the them a couple of days later saying what was on its way. I got the standard reply from them about 4 days after that. I don't know if that is a response to the email or my letter :confused: hopefully if I feel a bit better in the morning, I'll try and verify with my bank what's happened to that payment. it looks like the £12 + £12 for the default letter are being applied to a 'missed' payment at the end of November, which I know I've sent and well within time. My balance now stands at over £92, 2/3 of which is charges I don't even understand exactly why they have applied. I know I'm not perfect, but the approach being used by Argos seems extremely heavy handed. I really can't see how they can justify wrecking my credit record, considering the amount i'm in debt to them. It's that that worries me more than anything at the minute. I'd 'happily' jump up and down on them until they refund the charges, but the damage the default is likely to do couldn't have come at a worse time. I'd really like to know what to do about that. I know there's a lot of articles on threads on here that may help, but I'm feeling so confused and upset at the minute, I don't know where to start.:Cry:

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...just got off the phone to my bank. The £10 payment I sent 17/11 was cleared by them on the 2/12, which is obviously before the default letter was sent. So no what I want to know is:

-what the hell took Argos so long to present it in the first place?

-how they can get away with defaulting me, when they must have known they payment they were defaulting me for was in the system??

-what do I do next??:-|:mad::confused:

 

still upset, still confused....

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Im sure someone will help you with this. Wish i only had 1 default and a couple of £12 charges to my name lol, seriously though i cant believe your stressing so much over this, just keep going through with the claim for your £12 fees back and send another letter asking for them to remove the default as the default was incured due to the charges. Id be more helpful but im no expert but you have come to the right place.

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In the first instance I would send a letter of complaint to customer services pointing out what you told us in post #3.

 

If that produces no joy, you can consider it as a preliminary letter before sending a Letter Before Action if you want to go down that route.

 

 

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...it wouldn't all be so bad, if the whole situation wasn't so daft!!

 

I'll certainly be getting a letter of complain of to them, though I did think it would be better to wait until I had a copy of the details from my bank to send with it...? I can start preparing the letter, though-if someone has any ideas on how I can put things?

 

I'm also still going to be after getting all the charges refunded. I've given some idea of the standard letter Argos have already sent on this, it was identical to a letter posted in another thread. Unfortunately, i can't find that other thread now to be able to see what the customer's response was, to help me with wording my own! so if anyone can give me a clue as to how I respond to Argos's claim that OFT discussions don't apply to them because they are a store card? I know the info Is on this site somewhere, but I seem to be looking in all the wrong places!!

 

thanks everyone x

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thanks for your suggestions, Steve :)

I've had a little play with your letter (ok, I've turned it into war & peace!!)...hopefully if anyone sticks with it, it shouls explain where I'm currently at-

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

With respect to the status of the above-mentioned account, I wish to take issue with how Argos Card Services have operated it. While I do not claim to be perfect, I have come to realise that much of its current state may have more to do with inefficiencies within your service rather than my occasional errors.

On top of penalties already levied due to ‘late’ payments, it has been distressing in the extreme to find that a default notice has been applied to my account, which could have serious consequences for my credit record. Bearing in mind that I had sent a payment covering the amounts the default notice and accompanying letter claim I had not paid well before the notice date of 4/ 12/ 08, I set about trying to trace its whereabouts through my bank. As I had sent payment on or around 17/ 11/ 08 I would have fully expected it to have cleared long before the default. To this end, please find enclosed a copy of the bank’s response, which includes a copy of the payment cheque. This had been stamped on the reverse, presumably by yourselves, on the 28/ 11/ 08 (even if this is not the case, then it was in your possession before this date for you to have passed it to the bank). The bank released the payment 4 days later. Both dates fall before the alleged default, so I respectfully demand that you explain why your system failed to account for the payment I had made, and why it took nearly 2 weeks for you to even begin processing it, when your own statements claim that payments should show on my account after 5 days. As the payment was included with a letter requesting repayment of charges already applied, it may have been possible that it initially was passed on to the incorrect department. However, I fail to see why it still took you so long and why no note had been made on my account that a payment was being processed. I had emailed on 21/ 11/ 08 a copy of the said letter also, and at this stage I am unaware of whether the response to its contents was due to the letter or the email- however you were informed that payment was on its way, and I would have expected it to have been in your possession by the time of the email.

This also brings into question previous charges, as although I may well have mistakenly missed due dates I have always dealt with the issue promptly as soon as I had realised. Indeed, you may recall the polite request in September. I sent covering payment as soon as your reminder pointed out my error, and any follow up that suggested charges MAY be applied (not HAVE BEEN) to my balance was received after payment had been sent- so it was ignored. However, the refusal of yourselves to refund charges (and I do still have the emails to prove this) prior to my current situation has partly been due to your claim that charges were applied that month. As I had again sent adequate payment to cover that due, it once again appears that my cheque failed to be processed by yourselves in an efficient manner. I would also query my balance at this point, as I had not been informed in writing that any such charge that month WAS applied and if it had, it was an amount added to my balance without my knowledge. I would like you to justify this, and would even go as far as to query legality of this?

 

I had recently come to realise that the fees which were applied to my accounts in relation to late payments substantially exceed your costs in handling these events and amount to penalty charges, which are contrary to common law and to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, and I have already written and emailed you on this matter requesting repayment of charges and interest applied up to that point. Contrary to claims within your standard computerized response dated --/--/--, you are not exempt from any issues that the OFT care to discuss regarding credit, and any investigations and/or discussions carried out by them with credit card companies do also apply to you. Regarding charges, the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) issued a directive to credit card companies to set a point at which they (the OFT) would intervene on behalf of the consumer, and I quote –

A fair default charge should not exceed a reasonable estimate of certain limited administrative costs which the credit card issuer reasonably expects to incur as a result of default"

They did not state that £12 was lawful - in fact, they stated that only a court could decide. Such charges are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary. If you are suggesting otherwise, then you will be pleased to demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put as a result of my breaches in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

This letter constitutes a formal request for you to repay £x in late payment charges and listed in the attached schedule, plus interest of £y based on my bank’s authorised borrowing rate of 14.9% compounded, which is what it would have cost me to replace this money, making a total of £x+y. I also ask for the immediate removal of the default placed on my account with any credit reference agencies, and evidence that this has been actioned. As this and related charges appears to have been only applied due to the failure of your system to process my payment in a timely manner, I fully expect there to be no issue with this additional request.

 

This letter is not a complaint and so I do not expect it to be treated as such. Rather, I expect a positive response within 14 days accepting my request in principle. I believe that this is more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and large resources. I also fully expect that the particulars of my account and my situation are accurately assessed by your staff and not to have to respond to some standardised letter which, as the manner of your previous offer letter implies- is your usual response to any queries or requests regarding charges, no matter what the circumstances- and is hence is suggestive of a woeful lack of effort on your part that could seen as further evidence that you are failing to handle not just my account in an accurate and efficient manner.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

...what do you think? any suggestions as to little improvements, or complete re-works gratefully received! I really need to get this away in the next day or so. As I've said, I got the copy of my cheque last weekend and this seems to suggest that they were well aware that they'd been 'paid'. How they can get away with the default is beyond me....:mad:

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