Response from Halifax to credit Card CCA request

[hammyhound]

Can anyone look at this. I did not receive any default notice on 15th October.

 

All they have enclosed is the current terms and conditions. Where do I go from here.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Hammyhound

 

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/ResponsefromHalifax.jpg

[vexlitigant]

Hi HammyHound

 

IMHO, for now, the abscence of a default shouldn't be too much of a concern. In fact i wouldn't point that out to them yet, as it may work to your advantage if this goes anywhere.

 

What is it you had with Halifax - Credit Card, Bank Account or Loan?

 

Are you saying that you have asked Halifax for a copy of your credit agreement, and all they have responded with is a copy of the standard T's & C's?

 

and BTW, I would also rub out the amount of money shown in your photobucket copy of the letter received from Halifax - just so that your thread remains as close to anonymous as possible - you never know who is looking in.

 

Vex

[hammyhound]

Now edited, thanks for pointing that out.

 

Yes it was a Halifax CC taken out over 6 years ago.

 

That was the only letter I received together with as I say four pages of the current terms and conditions. It is headed at the top credit card agreement regulation by the consumer credit act 1974 with the parties details but no signatures. The default sums are £12 and interest is 22.53% This was printed last week not 6 years ago.

 

Hammyhound

[vexlitigant]

Hi HH

 

I suspect that what has happened is that the only signature you have ever put down on paper is the one you popped onto the Application Form. I'll find the relevant wording after i have posted this, but a signed Application form does not constitute a credit agreement, and in short, without a properly signed credit agreement (signed by you & Halifax) containing all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 1974 and subsequent statutory instruments.

 

And failure to give you one with all of the above makes in unenforceable in law

 

When you signed your application for, that is precisely what it was - just an application for credit.

 

Like many other companies, Halifax appear not to have required you to sign a separate agreement AFTER accepting your signed application. As you ( + lots of others) were possibly unaware of the Consumer Credit Act then, you would have been under the assumption that all was in place.

 

My view (like another Cagger that i have read from, a long time in the past) is that Halifax knew that once the card dropped on your doormat, you would have gone on your merry way and spent, then paid, then spent, then paid etc etc and spared no attention to the interest rate and other boring small print.

 

Right now, the credit card co's and banks are ruing the day they ever conducted their business this way.

 

Having said that, if you could take all of the private details off of the documents that they claim is the agreement, and post the photobucket link here, i'll take a olook for you

[hammyhound]

I need a tutorial, how do I scan multiple pages onto photobucket. I have only ever managed one page, scan to microsoft paint, rub details out and then upload to photobucket and then copy and paste to CAG. When I scan to microsoft paint it only scans one page, not the whole document.

 

Help!

[vexlitigant]

Not sure what scanner and what scanner utilities you have.

 

Try scanning one at a time.

 

I think from what you have said that you are pretty safe, but seing the docs would help us

 

Thanks, Vex

[hammyhound]

I will have to try and use the scanner in work. The whole document is 17 pages long. The first "credit card agreement" relates to Bank of Scotland Plc, Edinburgh There are no signatures only my name at the top. The parties to this agreement are Bank of Scotland Plc, Edinburgh and me. The "second credit agreement" is Halifax Plc and me. Both contain much the same information. The £12 default charge. There seem to be dates at the end of each agreement one being printed 2nd December.

 

I will try and use the scanner at work.

[vexlitigant]

post here when you have scanned in

[hammyhound]

Hi sorry for all the attachments, did not know how to group them together.

 

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics116.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics117.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics118.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics119.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics120.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics121.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics122.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics123.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics124.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics125.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics126.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics127.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics128.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics129.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics130.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics131.jpg

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/Pics132.jpg

 

Sorry once again, I will one day sit and try and understand how to group things together.

 

Hammyhound

[vexlitigant]

Hi Hammy

 

I'm off out to watch the footbal tonight. I'll take alook at this in the morning. Someone else may well come into your thread later as well.

 

Thanks, Vex

[lsubiela]

Hi guys,

I have a Halifax loan pre April 2007, I've been looking through a number of threads, all very useful, but I can't find a template letter to request a copy of the original signed CCA?

 

Is there a particular area on this site that holds them all?

[davey77]

Hammy, this is Exactly the same response as i, and others, have had. Up to a point they have, as they have stated, complied with the request, but without signatures and prescribed terms it is not compliant to a properly executed and original full agreement.

 

s61 CCA - Signing of agreement:

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

s127(3) CCA:

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

Make a complaint to your Local Trading Standards dept and write to Halifax stating you require an original and properly executed credit agreement.

 

Isubiela: Letter N:

Creditors and DCAs - Consumer Wiki

 

By the way Hammy, you should change you photobucket account settings in 'Options' to 'Private'. At a later date you may upload other information you don't want to share immediately. Just prudent really.

[davey77]

To create a digital Signature i use this site:

Online Personal Signature Maker - MyLiveSignature - Free Personal Signature Generator

[lsubiela]

Thanks Davey, I shall set up my own thread shortly, hope everything works out Hammy I'll keep my eye on your posts.

[DMD12577]

Hi, ive also had the same conditions of use and also a copy of the application form i made when applying for halifax credit card when requesting a cca from cabot, they state that because i signed in the signature box on the application form, it says this is a credit agreement sign it only if you wish to be bound by its terms, they state they are perfectly within their rights to enforce this debt against me as my arguments are clearly unfounded and have no basis for my dispute. They have sent this weeks ago and I wrote back saying basically I was bemused as to why they think an application form was classed as a credit agreement and that they think they have provided me with the info I requested and got the same letter back stating it was a cca and that they have satified their obligations to me and will resume collections. they did for ease of reference resend the 2 applications with the exact same info on except for different dates but both clearly state application form as header, along with halifax's conditions of use. What now? I am actually doubting myself even after reading up tons on the credit act 1974 as to whether this is a fully enforceable credit agreement i just need this confirming by someone here or ill take it to cab. I have the exact same printed docs in the link above in hammy's post along with 2 application forms with all my details on eg: name address, employment,wages,financial,and then declaration, so does this mean i have a credit agreement or does it just show ive applied for a credit card and they have sent the t&c's not the credit agreement.

[guzzleguts]

Hi all,

I have had the same t&C'S and blank agreement through,as i see it if they had anything enforceble they would send it, with court papers following shortly after, but they dont have anything that will stand up in court, in most cases.

GG

[hammyhound]

An update folks.

 

today I receive a letter from Apex Credit Management saying Please accept this letter that Apex has purchased your account as of 29th October.

 

Attached to is a letter dated 30th October on Halifax letterheading saying we hereby give you notice of the transfer - shouldn't they have sent it to me on 30th October not attached it to Apex Credit Management letter (btw the two letters have been typed on the same computer being the eagle eye that I am) Are these companies associated in any way ie the same person typed them both).

 

So here is my question, if the account was sold on 30th October why did the Halifax bother sending me the "agreement" on 5th December.

 

Where do I go from here.

 

Hammyhound

[Big Naughty]

Can anyone look at this. I did not receive any default notice on 15th October.

 

All they have enclosed is the current terms and conditions. Where do I go from here.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Hammyhound

 

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/hammond39/ResponsefromHalifax.jpg

Hi HH - I have had exactly the same response from Halifax, saying they don't need to send signed agrements after sending a CCA letter.

 

The advice I had from everyone on here was to send a Subject Access Request. There are loads of threads with templates and what to do on them. It costs £10 but you will find out from their response exactly what documentation and information they have with your name and signatue on.

 

Its the best advice I have had so far.

 

BN

[jennycrying]

An update folks.

 

today I receive a letter from Apex Credit Management saying Please accept this letter that Apex has purchased your account as of 29th October.

 

Attached to is a letter dated 30th October on Halifax letterheading saying we hereby give you notice of the transfer - shouldn't they have sent it to me on 30th October not attached it to Apex Credit Management letter (btw the two letters have been typed on the same computer being the eagle eye that I am) Are these companies associated in any way ie the same person typed them both).

 

So here is my question, if the account was sold on 30th October why did the Halifax bother sending me the "agreement" on 5th December.

 

Where do I go from here.

 

Hammyhound

 

Hi Hammyhound,

 

It seems there may be a pattern emerging here as I also had a letter from Halifax dated the 30th October, and one from Apex dated the 30th December 2008, but just received them on the 3rd Jan 2009.

 

Just like you Halifax were supposed to be in the middle of assessing my case and in my circumstances under the financial hardship definitions, having received my common financial statement form just after the 11th. did not hear anything from Halifax until now, and only to the effect that they had sold my alleged debt to Apex.

 

The most annoying bit was that the letter from Halifax telling me they sold the debt, was dated the 30th Oct 2008, but in their letter they said quote= "On the 22nd November 2008, your account was sold to Apex Credit Management Ltd" un-quote. They either think they can treat people like idiots, or they believe they are above the law and therefore can get away with anything.

 

Jen

[hammyhound]

Hi Hammyhound,

 

It seems there may be a pattern emerging here as I also had a letter from Halifax dated the 30th October, and one from Apex dated the 30th December 2008, but just received them on the 3rd Jan 2009.

 

 

Jen

 

Hi Jen,

 

Did your letters come in the same envelope ie the Apex Credit together with the Halifax letter attached and can you also see that both letters are used on the same computer, even both of my letters have the same misprint in the address.

 

Hammyhound

[hammyhound]

Does anyone suggest sending out a new CCA request to Apex Credit or just send them an account in dispute despite the fact that they have said they bought the debt and with Halifax replying to me on 5th December.

[jennycrying]

Hi Jen,

 

Did your letters come in the same envelope ie the Apex Credit together with the Halifax letter attached and can you also see that both letters are used on the same computer, even both of my letters have the same misprint in the address.

 

Hammyhound

 

Hi Hammyhound,

 

The letters were in separate envelopes, the typing looked similar.

 

I bet there are a lot of people in the same boat as us.

 

I suspect, Halifax are up to something on a big scale, perhaps they have a fairly good idea of the outcome of the Judges on the 26th Jan 09.

 

What I would like to know is why are they getting away with this, and its not just Halifax, but all financial institutions.

Jen

[jennycrying]

Does anyone suggest sending out a new CCA request to Apex Credit or just send them an account in dispute despite the fact that they have said they bought the debt and with Halifax replying to me on 5th December.

 

Hi HH again,

 

I am sending a Dispute letter to Apex, and the wording suggested to me is as follows:

 

[Account in Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I refer to your recent letter and telephone calls.

 

As holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which was disputed with BANK NAME prior to your first contact with me, and has yet to be resolved.

Since this is considered an unfair practice and contrary to the OFT guidelines, you should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with a copy of your complaint resolution procedure.

I also require you to confirm that you will now comply with the OFT guidelines, and will not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved.

 

Should you fail to provide me with the required undertaking within 7 days, I shall report your breach of the OFT guidelines to Trading Standards and complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Take notice that I will not discuss this matter on the telephone, and all further communication must be in writing. Any further telephone calls will be perceived as harassment, and dealt with accordingly.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully]

 

Apparently if the account is in dispute it must not be sold. So you need to tell your original creditor this also.

 

Hopefully those with more knowledge than me, will advise on this action also.

Jen

[shirei12]

subbing as I have also received the same:)

[Big Naughty]

I like sending this one below. I love using the word "bemused"!

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: xxxxxxxxxxxx

DCA Reference : XXXXXX

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with xxxxxxxx and has been since xxxxxxx

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the CCA74.

 

As xxxxOCxxxx are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

I also take note that you have asked me in your letter dated xxxxxxx which I received today on the xxxxxxx, that you have in the second bullet point of section “Payment can be made by the following methods”, stated that you would like me to consider using a Credit Card to pay the outstanding balance. I will take legal advice on this because I believe this to be outside of the OFT guidelines. If applicable******

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the xxxxxxxOCxxxxxx for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as xxxDCAxxxx cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If xxxxxDCAxxxx chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

Don’t sign.