Never signed agreement! ** WON**

[johnnymitch]

Hi Mike , welcome to the forum

 

As you have allready sent a letter requesting a copy of you Loan agreement and received no satisfactory reply .. try sending this letter , suitably amended if necessary......

 

Reference ....... (your letter of xx xxx xx)

I am disappointed that you have failed to respond to my request for a copy of my Loan agreement to which I am entitled under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79). A copy of this letter is attached for your convenience.

I have previously enclosed a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I am sure you also understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

Failure to respond positively will be reported to the Financial Ombudsman Service and the Office of Fair Trading.

Yours faithfully

Do not sign the letter with your normal signature in case it accidentally appears on a Loan Agreement.... . Either print your name or sign with a uniquely identifiable signature.......

And of course send the letter 'Recorded Delivery' - so someone has to sign for it ........

If you need further advice on this just come back and ask - someone will answer - and we're a friendly bunch on here

[johnnymitch]

With regard to your Default removal query Mike - try these links and see if they help you :

Removal of default ( courtesy of freakyleaky)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/24013-defaults-proposed-method-removal.html

Courtesy of Andyorchy – default check list (IMPORTANT)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1604130.html

[johnnymitch]

It'll be interesting to see how it goes, Mike ........ . We all learn from each other's experiences on here .......

 

Best of Luck...

[johnnymitch]

So do I mike - hope it works for you .......

[johnnymitch]

Thanks mike - it's not the amount - it's the thought that counts, mate

[johnnymitch]

Thanks for the update Mike,

 

As it's 12 working days from when they receive it , they've a little bit of time left before they're in breach .... but don't let 'em off the hook if they don't comply ......

[johnnymitch]

Be nice to get a letter admitting it though, mike - in 12 working days - not 1200 ....LOL

[johnnymitch]

Invite her out to lunch and ask her to bring the agreement with her mike....

[johnnymitch]

[johnnymitch]

Well done mike, that's sorted them out!

 

As HSBC's collection agency, I think they just trawl the database to find cases they can chase for money:rolleyes:..... a lot of people will cough up, because they don't know any better ......... Knowledge is power / control.... as you've just found out - .

They'll probably just refer it back to HSBC proper, or flag it - 'this guy knows the game, leave him alone .........' LOL!

[johnnymitch]

Hi Mike ,

I'd say if you don't get anything in Monday's post you've given them long enough .

Complain to FOS and let HSBC know you've done it .......

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumer/complaints.htm

 

This may spark a reaction from them if they know you're serious.....

[johnnymitch]

Hi mike ,

 

Well done on informing FOS ........ I would say write to HSBC , telling them you've re-started your complaint the Ombudsman about their lack of compliance ......

 

I wouldn't bother with the local branch , send it Recorded Delivery to :

 

HSBC Bank Plc

Service Quality Team

Arlington Business Centre

Millshaw Park Lane

Leeds

LS11 0PP

 

Telephone contact with the bank is futile, they don't listen and you have no record of the conversation .....

[johnnymitch]

[johnnymitch]

Hi Mike

 

does anyone think it best if for the moment i let the FOS decide

or am i still ok to go ahead and fight HSBC at the same time?

 

A double -pronged attack might get results , especially if , as you say , they can't back it up with a signed agreement ........ point out that your case is with FOS and suggest it might save FOS and the court's time if they just admitted their lack of a document and gave in .......

[johnnymitch]

Difficult to advise on this mike - to borrow from what pete says in #44.... I don't think you can predict which way any particular judge will jump either......

 

You could try brinkmanship and take them down the court road , but if, as they say, they are waiting for FOS to spark - that may not prompt them into settling out of court ........ ?

[johnnymitch]

Hi mike , that's progress of a sort ........

 

But did you record the phone call ......... lol! I may be an old cynic but I'll bet they can't find who told you next time you ask .....

 

Can you ask them to confirm in writing ?

[johnnymitch]

Hi mike, I think you've got them on the back foot and they're squirming .

 

I'd be tempted to write and give them one more chance to produce this , with the (very real) threat that you will allow a court to decide before FOS get round to dealing with it , 'as you know FOS are very busy at the moment and will take too long to make a decision '...... .

 

It may prompt them into just folding ........

[johnnymitch]

Hi Mike

I'm not sure about the legality of reverting to a previous loan ,now non- existent, ...... but I would doubt the word of any idiot from FOS who doesn't know that managed loans are some of the most usurious legal loans in existence .... if this ignorance wasn't so serious it would be hilarious.

 

I think you should take advice from your solicitor and go it alone taking on HSBC if you think you have a case .

 

Meanwhile , a complaint to FOS about the ignorance of their adjudicator wouldn't go amiss ....... if you have evidence , but if it's verbal he could just deny saying it ........

[johnnymitch]

Just as an afterthought ,Mike , I'll be interested to hear what pete has to say on this one, if the screen can stand the heat

[johnnymitch]

As I said before Mike , I think you've got HSBC on the back foot with no Loan agreement and now that you may have FOS on the back foot with prejudicial drivel , maybe it's time to push both of them into a corner .... with a final LBA to HSBC and a Serious Complaint letter to FOS.....

 

But maybe best to see what your solicitor says about the previous loan first .......

[johnnymitch]

Oops , sorry mike , - Letter Before Action - basically just saying that if they cannot produce proof of the existence of your agreement or confirm in writing that they do not hold such an agreement within (say 14days) that you will institute legal proceedings to force them to do so .

 

See my previous posts around #55..... you may have to take them to the brink of legal action ...... doesn't look as if FOS are going to be of any help at the moment ..

[johnnymitch]

I haven't heard about this one Mike , but thanks for posting it ....

 

There's always some loopy judge who's not living in the real world and doesn't read directives from on high....

 

Hopefully , other judges will not follows suit and this one will be overturned on appeal ......

 

Of course , as you also point out , we don't know the ins and outs of the case ..... the appellant may have inadvertently admitted to something and the judge had no option ..... who knows?

Edited March 3, 2009 by johnnymitch
afterthought ........

[johnnymitch]

Hi mike ,

 

With all due respect to your solicitor friend , you are right , FOS are a waste of time at the moment due to being inundated with complaints . Last I heard they were still working on Dec 2007 .

 

.and one agreement for 3 loans ....

..... that will be in their 'Too Difficult ' tray ...... lol!

 

So, maybe it's time to let the court decide , but that has to be your decision mate , because given the strange logic of some judges , you could lose it .......

Pete may be along later , and we can see what his angle on it is....

[johnnymitch]

Thanks for the update Mike - an interesting slant on FOS's options there.. IMHO if the managed loan has not been set up correctly, it is 'unenforceable' especially if there is no signature - which is what this has been all about - as atwozee said 'where do they get these adjudicators?

 

If that decision is in writing , then wonder which way HSBC are going to jump when they get their copy? ..... .

 

So, ultimately , it looks as if you have to go the court road to get any further , hopefully the court won't take the same position as FOS ...

 

Be interested to see how this pans out Mike

[johnnymitch]

Hah! that makes it a lot clearer - FOS are acting as HSBC's mouthpiece , not making their own considered decision ......

 

Having read all the way through your thread again I think that court is the only road left - if your solicitor reckons it's worth pursuing .... personally, I can't see that a loan with no signed agreement can be in any way enforceable ...... but I'm not a lawyer or a judge