RBS CCA request refused due to CCJ

[paulwlton]

Thanks for the quick response. We've had a long chat with Paul.

 

You will not be dissapointed with this.

 

We have so much more info to give you. The trouble is, it's so complicated that we have decicided to do it in bits so you don't get confused.

 

5 new 'Capiatal & Interest Loan Accounts' opened without our knowledge.

 

Also the Business Loan Account was in debt by £2016 when they created these new accounts. But the deeds had been returned!!!

 

More starnge things soon........

 

Duncan & Debbie

 

Hi D&D

 

What! they actually converted your existing accounts into Capital and Interest loan accounts, and this was undertaken without your knowledge or consent......surely not.....but don't such accounts accrue quarterly interest both before and after judgment?

 

I would also request "true copies" of the alleged agreements under sec 77 CCA 1974.

 

Regards Paul

Edited May 18, 2008 by paulwlton

[paulwlton]

Thanks for the quick response. We've had a long chat with Paul.

 

You will not be dissapointed with this.

 

We have so much more info to give you. The trouble is, it's so complicated that we have decicided to do it in bits so you don't get confused.

 

5 new 'Capiatal & Interest Loan Accounts' opened without our knowledge.

 

Also the Business Loan Account was in debt by £2016 when they created these new accounts. But the deeds had been returned!!!

 

More starnge things soon........

 

Duncan & Debbie

 

Can't wait for the next installment.

 

Paul

[paulwlton]

Paul

 

Doing the CCA Requests tomorrow. I'll keep everybody informed.

 

I want to show some of my documents here but I don't know how to do it. I've noticed from your thread that you are showing documents. How do you do this?

 

Sorry, but I'm new at this!

 

Thanks

 

Duncan

 

You need to open up an account with photobucket, you can then scan documents to your account and copy and paste on to the site.

 

Paul

[paulwlton]

 

On the 30th March 2000 the debt was now £53,973.96. The statament shows a payment in from us of £300. The bank debits on the same day £5581.76 in interest. On the 29th June 2000 the Bank debits interest of £11,733.48 (we are still paying the £300 per Month). On the 20th September 2000 the bank debit £13,587.83 interest and on the 28th December (Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year) they debit £15,883.40 in interest. (Did we pay for the banks Christmas party?)

 

It's plain and obvious that they've charged/charging interest pursuant to their standard T and Cs contained in Capital and interest variable rate loan accounts.

13 Interest is calculated at the rate of interest on the daily balance outstanding (both before and after any court decree or judgment) and applied quarterly on the penultimate business day of March, June, September and December in each year and on final repayment of credit.

Edited May 19, 2008 by paulwlton

[paulwlton]

The account was transfered to credit management in Telford RBSs internal debt collectors where erroneous transactions are undertaken, the tell tale sign that the account is now a Capital & Interest rate loan is the fact that interest as been applied on the penultimate day of business - 27 Sept 19996. Check the calendar.

 

Remember the DPA wasn't around in 1996 so we were unable to see just what these scumbags were doing with our accounts.

 

Paul

Edited May 20, 2008 by paulwlton

[paulwlton]

I hope that someone can help with this...

 

This is something that is happening while I am compiling information against the bank.

 

Due to our apparent debt to the bank I have had a Charging Order Issued against me.This was granted. This happened last month, but I did put up a bit of a fight to the Judge. This was without having any of the information that I now have. The Judge was pretty good and ordered the Banks Barrister to inform his client that the original CCJ was likely to be set aside.

 

The original CCJ judgments were for ME to pay £290 per Month and DEBBIE to pay £10 per Month. We have both been in default of this for around 18 months. This is why they are going for the C/O.

 

Debbie has a seperate C/O due to her default on the CCJ.

 

If I pay Debbies arrears of around £200 before the C/O court hearing date and carry on paying the £10 per month. Does that mean she has not defaulted and the C/O cannot be granted?

 

Need a quick answer, This goes to court on 6th June

 

Thanks

 

 

Duncan

 

I'm afraid missing one payment gives the bank rights to apply for a charge on your property. However, with the evidence you have uncovered this should be defended. Furthermore, the CCJs are a sham and should be set-aside.

 

Re: Router accounts - I know of an MP who is extremely concerned that

the accounts can be manipulated to suggest certain transactions have been made without the customers knowledge.

 

I also suggest you involve your MP.

 

Paul

[paulwlton]

Haven't posted for a while. We have been taking advice from some special people on this site.

 

Our storey is likely to be a big one. The banks have lied and possibly defrauded us out of many thousands of pounds.

 

Yourselves and many more.

[paulwlton]

Penfold,

 

The only reason I did this was because of you!!

 

At least you got a reply. I thought they were going to do a thorough investigation. Didn't this happen?

 

D & D

 

I have no doubt your MP will be forwarding a letter to Sir Tom on your behalf. The bank cannot ignore letters from MPs. Alarm bells will definitely start to ring at head office.

 

Paul

[paulwlton]

Hey Paul

 

Tried to send you a PM,But you have 'exceeded your quota'.

 

Toooo popular!!

 

Maybe you can delete some of the old ones?

 

D & D

 

 

Cleared.

[paulwlton]

this maybe a silly question, but if we have received a letter fom the bank marked 'Private and Confidential'. Would it be foolish to post it here?

 

We really want to show you all what's going on.

 

D & D

 

That is entirley up to you.

[paulwlton]

Got another question.

 

We had 5 accounts with the bank. Mrs D had a Personal Current and I had a Personal Current, all the rest were Joint accounts.

 

The CCJ's were issued seperatley, 2 different claim numbers and slightly different amounts.

 

The CO's are also for slightly different amounts.

 

Does this mean that we owe each amount seperate to each other or are they joint debts?

 

If they are seperate they've just doubled the debt.

 

Thanks

 

D & D

 

Have you retained the paperwork from the judgments.?

[paulwlton]

The trouble is Penfold, that 4 of the account numbers in the 'particulars of claim' are the same on both. The only difference is our Personal Current Accounts.

 

D

 

In that case it seems like they've obtained a similar amount twice on both judgments. How appropriate, that is really adding value to the bottom line - to quote their own internal memo.

[paulwlton]

Theyre probably using "joint and severable"......ie they can get the money from either...or both (depends on who owns or has whatever money/property) they will only take what is owed...not double (unless they think they can get away with it )

 

Dave

 

I assume this would be stated in the judgment?

[paulwlton]

I assume both judgments are under different claim numbers?

[paulwlton]

Hi Paul,

 

 

Yep, 2 different numbers. same day, same court, but the digits are 1 different.

 

D

 

Well imo these are two separate claims with two separate amounts, i may be wrong, but then again this is RBS.

 

Paul

[paulwlton]

I would ask them to provide you with their relevant terms and conditions that relate to your account/accounts.

 

I quote my MP in a letter to Sir Tom - RBSs Chairman.

 

"Is it RBSs normal business practice to create and change accounts, including significantly the terms that attach to them, without informing a customer or seeking their agreement"

[paulwlton]

Paul

 

This is very interesting as we didn't even know these new accounts existed. Did your MP get a response?

 

D

 

Yes the RBS aren't bothered who they mislead.

 

My MP forwarded the bank's latest response last month in which it is admitted that my accounts were set up incorrectly as a "different type of recovery account"

Edited May 27, 2008 by paulwlton

[paulwlton]

Does this make sense.

 

 

 

 

 

Thinking back to when I worked in the banks as a Financial Adviser in the early 90's, this 'moving' of debt accounts went on all the time. Although I wasn't involved in day to day banking, I did keep my ear to the ground as to what things went on.

 

I clearly remember a case of a high overdraft on one account, where the account holder was not repaying anything or was not in a position to repay it.

 

The branches were put under pressure to keep dormant overdrafts to a minimum. Branch managers were targetted on their 'net balances' of the branch . A large dormant overdraft would have an effect on the net balance of the branch and would leave the manager open to some awkwad questioning from head office.

 

At the same time, they were targetted on sales of personal loans.

 

So what do you think happened to large dormant overdrafts???

 

It was a case of branch managers killing two birds with the one stone. Net balances increased due to the 'removal' of the overdraft and the lending book increased towards their sales target.

 

All this was done as a 'paper exercise' without the knowledge of the debtor, and no consideration given to the CCA or any repercussions. If the fantasy loan wasn't repaid, then the banks went for judgement, and the poor debtor in those days who didn't know their rights were screwed.

 

The reverse also happened, there were instances where current accounts were opened and put into overdraft, and unauthorised overdrafts were increased if the branch had a good net balance figure - to cover the fact that a loan granted had not been repaid, as the manager would also be questioned about loans with 2 or more consecutive missed repayments. This would make it look like a PL granted by the manager, was continuing to be repaid every month and would not show up on any reports. The overdraft would not be questioned for some time if the branch had a good net balance figure. Again these new accounts were set up without the knowledge of the debtor. I suppose money laundering regulations have made this more difficult now? Or maybe not?

[paulwlton]

Paul,

 

Is this a quote from some someone else?

 

D

 

It's a quote from someone in the know.

[paulwlton]

Paul

 

This is serious stuff.

 

This could effect a lot of us!

 

D

 

I'm afraid so.

[paulwlton]

RBS seem to be trying to get two CCJs for the same amount. Take a look.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/146208-natwest-problems.html

[paulwlton]

Am a right in thinking that RBS obtained judgment for the book debt amount shown in your router account statement on page 2?

 

Paul

[paulwlton]

No interest is payable on judgments regulated by CCA 1974. Unfortunately DJs need to be made aware of this.

 

 

2.—(1) Subject to the following provisions of this Order, every judgment debt under a relevant judgment shall, to the extent that it remains unsatisfied, carry interest under this Order from the date on which the relevant judgment was given.

 

(2) In the case of a judgment or order for the payment of a judgment debt, other than costs, the amount of which has to be determined at a later date, the judgment debt shall carry interest from that later date.

 

(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment— (a) is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

[paulwlton]

We applied for our CCA info to the RBS a few Months ago.

 

They have sent back our Postal Orders saying that our Contract/Agreement with them is our CCJ, NOT our original agreements.

 

They are refusing to supply ANY original documents relating to our original accounts! (Although we do have a lot of info from our S.A.R, but still NO original agreements)

 

We've been thinking about this from looking at other threads.

 

It seems to us that RBS Telford are doing their best to deny us any information.

 

Can they do this?

 

D&D

 

I suggest you take this up with your local TS - they can order RBS to comply.

 

PW

[paulwlton]

If a CCJ has already been entered against a debt, then there is no point in requesting the agreement under the CCA,

 

What if a creditor is applying interest to the account post judgment without contractual provision. Wouldn't a CCA request be of use to determine this by allowing a debtor to check the terms and conditions.