Cabot - old Citi card debt - CCA Request

[TMAngel]

I have put a response on another thread but was advised to start my own re Cabot.

 

Basically Cabot took over my CitiFinancial account and I have been paying them an agreed monthly sum for nearly 2 years now. For info they registered a Default on my credit file.

 

After looking into reclaiming PPI on various credit agreements I decided to obtain my CCA from Cabot. So far:

 

12 August 2008 : Sent initial CCA request letter off with £1 postal order.

 

14 August 2008: Received standard letter from Cabot dated 13 August along with returned £1 postal order. This letter stated 'they are not obliged to provide this info blah blah ... but are pleased to help and have already requested the documentation from original lender (Citi).

 

In their letter they state 'they anticipate they will be able to provide this info within 12 days..'

 

Well the 12 days from the date of their letter (13 Aug) is up (deadline 25 Aug). Where do I stand now?

 

I've got advice from another thread saying to stop the Standing Order payment but I'm wary about doing this as I really don't want to start up the non-payment and threatening letters again. It caused a lot of stress in my relationship getting all these letters.

 

What I'd prefer to do is write them a letter stating they are now in default and as they cannot provide the CCA the debt is unenforceable. But as a gesture of my goodwill I will make a settlement offer on condition that they remove the default - and offer them something stupid like what 5 or 10%?

 

What do you advise? I do have the money to offer to settle if it will clear the default completely. The last thing I want is the hassle of taking it to court and stopping payment etc...

 

Thanks - hope someone can advise.

 

I also have queries re Wescot but not sure whether I should start a new thread...

[OnMyWayOut]

The choice is yours - you are within your rights to stop paying, but obviously you will get some hassle from them and then it will do the rounds of the lower orders before you are fully clear of it.

 

The other option is to go for a settlement, but it must be confirmed in writing by them that once they have accepted payment they will mark the debt as satisfied with the CRAs and they will not pursue OR pass on the balance to any other company.

[TMAngel]

Thanks OnMyWayOut (good name by the way!)

 

I think I'm going to go for the 2nd option of offering a small F&F settlment. If the debt is £1800 and they haven't produced the CCA within the required time do you think offering them 10% is a good offer?

 

What would you suggest putting in the offer letter? Or can you point me in the right direction?

[OnMyWayOut]

I can't find it at the moment, I'm sure someone else will come along soon with a link. There's a recent thread I was reading earlier that suggested sending in the payment cheque with a letter saying that acceptance of the payment would confirm that they accepted your conditions.

[ODC]

Personally I wouldnt offer these wretched people anything unless they come up with a properly executed CCA. If they cannot then the alleged debt becomes in dispute and if Crapbot pass it on whilst in dispute then they are breaking the law and you can report them. Equally if someone else lower down the DCA feeding chain starts to chase you for this disputed debt then there are plenty of Bog Off letters on here to see them off and if they keep polluting you then there are various legal remedies to silence them.

[TMAngel]

Hi ODC

 

I must admit if I could get away without paying minus the hassle it would be fantastic. But I had a horrible year in 2006 with the phone calls, letters etc that it caused so many arguments with my OH because he thought bailiffs would be coming round etc that I can't go through it again. He's happy that it's all being paid and that the hassle has stopped.

 

So for an easy life even if I could get away without paying evetually I am happy to offer them max of 10% to clear this debt and then can start on the others! I just want to be debt free and start afresh

 

OnMyWayOut has also offered good advice about sending in payment and if they accept it that they accept my conditions of F&F settlement. Do you have a link to a good letter? I'd rather not send a cheque though and would prefer a bank transfer once they've agreed in writing to the F&F.

[creditcardmug]

Do you know whether cabot actually own this debt?. I would want to know that in writing form both them and the OC.

[TMAngel]

I'm not sure if they actually own the debt but the default is in Cabot's name.

 

On Cabot's CCA response it gives a Cabot Reference Number but also states Original Lender as Citifinancial ad gives an account number which looks like the CitiCard Credit Card Number

 

What difference will it have if they are or aren't the lender in this situation? What do you suggest as the next step?

 

Thanks

[creditcardmug]

Well i would require a Notice of Assignment from the OC, and the same from cabot, that way you have it in writing that Citi no longer have any involvement in this.

Otherwise who is to say a few years down the line Citi might raise its ugly head and also require payment?

You may think im paranoid, but i wouldnt trust a word any of them say.

[TMAngel]

I don't think your paranoid at all, just giving some good advice to novices like me!

 

I'll contact Citi and Cabot and ask for a Notice of Assignment before I offer any settlement. surely this should be on file anyway?

 

I appreciate any advice because I don't want it to come back and bite me on the ar*e later on when I think everything is settled:lol:

[creditcardmug]

I don't think your paranoid at all, just giving some good advice to novices like me!

 

I'll contact Citi and Cabot and ask for a Notice of Assignment before I offer any settlement. surely this should be on file anyway?

 

I appreciate any advice because I don't want it to come back and bite me on the ar*e later on when I think everything is settled:lol:

 

Absolutely, If you can afford a very low F&f to get rid fine, if your happy to do that, but dont risk screwing it up for the sake of dotting the eyes and crossing the tees.

[TMAngel]

I'm going to send off to both Citi and Cabot today for a copy of the Deed of Assignment.

 

I'm also in a similar situation with CL Finance for my Debenhams card (GE Capital). I do have a copy of the Deed of Assignment for this one dated 21 December 2006. Again CL Finance have not responded to my CCA Request but have cashed the £1 postal order and used it to credit my outstanding balance (I have this month's statement and it was used as credit on 13 August).

 

As I've got the Deed of Assignment saying that it has been assigned to CL Finance absolutely can I just go ahead with breach of CCA letter, they are in default, non-enforceable debt etc and offer them a low f&f settlement?

 

Thanks for your help so far

[ODC]

You will never get a copy of the actual deed of assignment as it contains business information such as how much the DCA paid for the alleged debts it purchased off Citi. What you actually need to see is a copy of a letter of assignment showing that your alleged debt was assigned to the DCA by citi. This should have been served on you by citi.

[TMAngel]

Sorry got my Deed and Letter/Notice of Assignment confused

 

I don't have a copy of the Letter of Assignment from Citi to Cabot but am sending letters off to request this.

 

But I do have a copy of the Notice of Assignment from CL Finance stating they have been assigned absolutely from GE Capital (Debs).

 

Am I ok to go ahead and send the letter to CL Finance seeing as i have notice of assignment - they have not responded to my CCA request dated 12 August but have cashed the £1 postal order and credited against my account? I am going to state they are in breach of my CCA request etc..

 

Are there any standard letters for this?

 

Also had no response from Natwest re my CCA requests so they are also in breach. Do I have to give them a further 30 days to respond though?

[TMAngel]

Just a quick update re Cabot. I requested a copy of the Notice of Assignment which they are still to send but they have sent another letter re my CCA request.

 

'Although Cabot has requested the info, the original lender is experiencing a delay in retrieving the info from its archive'.

 

'We will as a gesture of goodwill put your account on hold until we receive further communication from the original lender'

 

Do I also need to contact the original lender (CitiFinancial) with a CCA request or just cancel my monthly standing order for the time being seeing as my account is now on hold?

 

Is this a good sign and would it put me in a good position to offer a low F&F settlement?

[NailPost]

You need do nothing because you have thrown the ball into their court. Its their fault, not yours, they don't have the agreement. You would be perfectly entitled to write back to them and tell them, as a gesture of goodwill, the montly standing order is being suspended until they come up with an enforceable credit agreement.

[ODC]

Of course they will not like it when you cancel the Standing Order but there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

[TMAngel]

I do have it in writing that 'as a gesture of goodwill they will put my account on hold until we receive further communication from the original lender'.

 

So I shall write back and say I will be cancelling my SO until such time that a proper CCA turns up.

 

That will save me some money this month!

 

One down just got to now get some advice on Natwest/Wescot who have both defaulted on the CCA requests! Wescot will take no responsibility at all and are passing it back to me to contact Natwest direct!

[ODC]

Just cancel the Standing Order. Dont waste a stamp on them. You are legally entitled to withold payments if they do not comply with your CCA request. A gesture of goodwill my ar*e

[TMAngel]

Is there a legal time limit for them to produce the CCA when the account is in default or does it become unenforceable forever after a certain amount of time?

 

Ie, can they still chase the debt in years to come if eventually they come up with the CCA?

[OnMyWayOut]

Only statute barring will stop (most of) them in the end.

[TMAngel]

Mmm that's what I thought someone would say.

 

What I really don't want is the same as a couple of years ago. Waiting for the post to arrive every day, phone calls, and 6 years of waiting for it to become statute barred!

 

How long realistically do I give them to produce the CCA request before requesting that the balance of the account be zero, the default removed and with the condition that if a CCA is produced in future that they cannot chase for payment (if this is possible) - even if I have to offer a very cheeky F&F offer to get them out of my life for good!

[OnMyWayOut]

If there's no CCA you should inform the OC that they have no rights to pass the debt around as it is in default - they also should not pass your personal data around in contravention of the DPA as they don't have a document in which you gave them authority to do so.

[TMAngel]

Another letter today from Cabot just stating that they acknowledge my recent CCA request and giving me an update.

 

They acknowledge that it has been 24 days since the request and hope to send the info shortly. They will remind the lender that this info remains outstanding and should be processed urgently.

 

Apologies for delay blah blah

 

My account shall remain on hold until further notice

 

So looks like there is no CCA (hopefully!)

[TMAngel]

Update on Cabot - letter received today.

 

States that Cabot purchased the debt from Citifinancial o 2 Feb 2006.

 

Reply my CCA Request:

'Although Cabot does not have an obligation under section77/78 or the CCA they will assist the original lender and customers in providing this info'. PO returned.

 

They have made several urgent requests to Citi to forward documentation but this has still not been received and basically they will continue to pursue this info and forward accordingly.

 

'Please be advised that the failure to provide a copy of your agreement in time does not affect the legality of your debt with Cabot but merely renders the Credit Agreement uneforceable until such time the agreement can be produced. Blah blah section 78 of the the CCA does not apply to us. As a gesture of goodwill Cabot has and shall cease any collection activity until such time the credit agreement is supplied to you'

 

I also sent them a Statutory Notice under Section 10 of DPA requesting they cease storing and processing personal data.

 

'I must advise you that Cabot is legally entitled and obligated under the original credit agreement (? they don't have?!) which you signed and entered into with the original lender .... under Schedule 2 paragraphs 1-4 of DPA...'

 

'As a result Cabot will continue to process your data in order to perform the credit agreement which you consented and agreed to...'

 

WHAT - How can they continue to process my data - they have no written evidence of me signing anything and cannot produce a valid CCA!!??

 

So where do I go from here - how likely are Citi to come up with a valid CCA and how exactly can Cabot continue to default me each month or can I get the CRA's to remove all this information as there is no CCA?

 

How long shall I wait?

 

Sorry, so many questions just not sure what to do now