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    • You can easily argue your case with no sign on the nearest parking sign
    • Same issue got a fine yesterday for parking in suspended bay which was ending at 6:30 yesterday, next thing I see a fine 15 minutes before it. The sign was obstructed 
    • Hi all, an update on the case as the deadline for filing the WS is tomorrow i.e., 14 days before the hearing date: 7th June. Evri have emailed their WS today to the court and to myself. Attached pdf of their WS - I have redacted personal information and left any redactions/highlights by Evri. In the main: The WS is signed by George Wood. Evri have stated the claim value that I am seeking to recover is £931.79 including £70 court fees, and am putting me to strict proof as to the value of the claim. Evri's have accepted that the parcel is lost but there is no contract between Evri and myself, and that the contract is with myself and Packlink They have provided a copy of the eBay Powered By Packlink Terms and Conditions (T&Cs) to support their argument the contractual relationship is between myself and Packlink, highlighting clause 3a, e, g of these T&Cs. They further highlight clause 14 of the T&Cs which states that Packlink's liability is limited to £25 unless enhanced compensation has been chosen. They have contacted Packlink who informed them that I had been in contact with Packlink and raised a claim with Packlink and the claim had been paid accordingly i.e., £25 in line with the T&Cs and the compensated postage costs of £4.82. They believe this is clear evidence that my contract is with Packlink and should therefore cease the claim against Evri. Evri also cite Clause 23 of the pre-exiting commercial agreement between the Defendant and Packlink, which states:  ‘Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 A person who is not a party to this Agreement shall have no rights under the Contracts (Right of Third Parties) Act 1999 to rely upon or enforce any term of this Agreement provided that this does not affect any right or remedy of the third party which exists or is available apart from that Act.’ This means that the Claimant cannot enforce third party rights under the Contract (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 and instead should cease this claim and raise a dispute with the correct party.   Having read Evri's WS and considered the main points above, I have made these observations: Evri have not seen/read my WS (sent by post and by email) as they would have recognised the claim value is over £1000 as it includes court fees, trial fees, postage costs and interests, and there is a complete breakdown of the different costs and evidence. Evri accepts the parcel is lost after it entered their delivery network - again, this is in my WS and is not an issue in dispute. Evri mentions the £25 and £4.82 paid by Packlink - Again, had they read the WS, they would have realised this is not an issue in dispute. Furthermore to the eBay Powered By Packlink T&Cs that Evri is referring to, Clauses 3b and c of the T&Cs states:  (b)   Packlink is a package dispatch search engine that acts as an intermediary between its Users and Transport Agencies. Through the Website, Users can check the prices that different Transport Agencies offer for shipments and contract with the Transport Agency that best suits their needs on-line. (c)  Each User shall then enter into its own contract with the chosen Transport Agency. Packlink does not have any control over, and disclaims all liability that may arise in contracts between a User and a Transport Agency   This supports the view that once a user (i.e, myself) selects a transport agency (i.e Evri) that best suits the user's needs, the user (i.e, myself) enters into a contract with the chosen transport agency (i.e, myself). Therefore, under the T&Cs, there is a contract between myself and Evri. Evri cites their pre-existing agreement with Packlink and that I cannot enforce 3rd party rights under the 1999 Act. Evri has not provided a copy of this contract, and furthermore, my point above explains that the T&Cs clearly explains I have entered into a contract when i chose Evri to deliver my parcel.  As explained in my WS, i am the non-gratuitous beneficiary as my payment for Evri's delivery service through Packlink is the sole reason for the principal contract coming into existence. Clearly Evri have not read by WS as the above is all clearly explained in there.   I am going to respond to Evri's email by stating that I have already sent my WS to them by post/email and attach the email that sent on the weekend to them containing my WS. However, before i do that, If there is anything additional I should further add to the email, please do let me know. Thanks. Evri Witness Statement Redacted v1 compressed.pdf
    • Thank you. I will get on to the SAR request. I am not sure now who the DCA are - I have a feeling it might be the ACI group but will try to pull back the letter they wrote from her to see and update with that once I have it. She queried it initially with 118 118 when she received the default notice I think. Thanks again - your help and support is much appreciated and I will talk to her about stopping her payments at the weekend.
    • you should email contact OCMC immediately and say you want an in person hearing.   stupid to not
  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Thunderpuss2k vs Birmingham Midshires (Halifax) **WON**


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Sounds fine to me. Why would they withdraw the offer? They'd be stupid to do that. Notice how their letters don't have 'without prejudice' on there? Nor should your reply. If they cause any trouble or mess you around, you can take that lot in court and explain to the judge they're deliberately wasting court time by making offers then withdrawing them. Most judges would take a dim view of that..

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Right then. I just did some quick number crunching on the redemption charge, and what would happen if it went to Court.

 

The charge itself is £4388.36. Interest from the date it was charged until today is £266.46, and will increase at 97p a day until date of judgement or sooner etc. Court fee is £120, so the grand total of the claim would be £4774.82.

 

They've got four days until the 14 day LBA deadline expires, and I need to find £120. Hmmm..

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Well you are getting £772.00 any day now. You will just have to give it a bit longer before you file court claim. I'm sure its very tempting though, almost painful........:o

 

Lizzy

 

Halifax

Sent LBA
27/6/06

Been on hol for a week, got home found letter from them dated
27/6/06 offer of £92 claiming £1155.10 so no deal.

Filed claim with Moneyclaim 12/07/06

Halifax acknowledged claim 25/7/06

Court papers received 28/7/06 Halifax intend to defend.

HALIFAX SETTLED IN FULL 1/8/06

Donation made

Birmingham Midshire (mortgage charges) Prelim letter sent 2nd Aug 2006, full offer received 11th Aug with conditions.

13th Aug accepted offer unconditionally.

BIRMINGHAM MIDSHIRES (MORTGAGE) SETTLED IN FULL 24/8/06

Sent SurlyBonds template letter to get defaults removed to Birmingham Midshires 27/08/06

DEFAULTS REMOVED 5/09/06.
THATS 9 DAYS LATER, YES 9 DAYS

 

 

 

 

 

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Still waiting for the £772 on penalties, nothing back about redemption yet. Gave them til the end of today, so..

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Interesting article, more ammunition for my case against BM.

 

Got a template letter today from them, which was their final response to my ERC claim. Hopefully I will be able to start the claim against them by the end of the week.

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And don't forget this

 

"A term in a mortgage agreement which requires the borrower to pay more for breaching the contract terms than actual costs and losses caused to the lender by the breach (or a genuine pre-estimate of that) is likely to be regarded as an unfair penalty and to be unenforceable both at common law and (in a consumer mortgage) under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. A redemption charge may be regarded as a penalty even if it is expressed as the price for exercising a right rather than a consequence of breaking the agreement

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Cheers Gizmo, I did include that in my last letter to them (a post LBA pre claim letter offering to settle for a little less than the redemption). Once this is all done and dusted I'll post all the correspondence to this thread.

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Can anyone help with this explanation of the large charge showing on my statements. Can I claim or not ?

 

 

(Birmingham Midshires)

 

I have looked into your query and confirm on 21 October 02 you had a product transfer to FSC this was a flexible product that operated on a discount of 0.50% off the Bank of England base rate +1.75% for life.

 

As part of the terms and conditions of your old product. Early Repayment Charges were applicable for 120months, as you decided to change your product within that time you incurred £1.548.79 and an arrangement fee of £149.00 for your new product. this is a total of £1.697.79.

 

Sorry I am a dope and don't know if I can claim or not. Of course I want to particually as we changed product with them.

 

 

????? Thanks Lizzy

 

PS still not received the penalty charges back yet.

 

Halifax

Sent LBA
27/6/06

Been on hol for a week, got home found letter from them dated
27/6/06 offer of £92 claiming £1155.10 so no deal.

Filed claim with Moneyclaim 12/07/06

Halifax acknowledged claim 25/7/06

Court papers received 28/7/06 Halifax intend to defend.

HALIFAX SETTLED IN FULL 1/8/06

Donation made

Birmingham Midshire (mortgage charges) Prelim letter sent 2nd Aug 2006, full offer received 11th Aug with conditions.

13th Aug accepted offer unconditionally.

BIRMINGHAM MIDSHIRES (MORTGAGE) SETTLED IN FULL 24/8/06

Sent SurlyBonds template letter to get defaults removed to Birmingham Midshires 27/08/06

DEFAULTS REMOVED 5/09/06.
THATS 9 DAYS LATER, YES 9 DAYS

 

 

 

 

 

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Can anyone help with this explanation of the large charge showing on my statements. Can I claim or not ?

 

The bulk of it is an early redemption penalty. Not sure if you'd get away for claiming the switch fee back too, but you never know..

 

PS still not received the penalty charges back yet.

 

Me neither, they've got til Monday to get me the money.

If my reply or advice was helpful, please click the scales!

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Can anyone help with this explanation of the large charge showing on my statements. Can I claim or not ?

 

 

(Birmingham Midshires)

 

I have looked into your query and confirm on 21 October 02 you had a product transfer to FSC this was a flexible product that operated on a discount of 0.50% off the Bank of England base rate +1.75% for life.

 

As part of the terms and conditions of your old product. Early Repayment Charges were applicable for 120months, as you decided to change your product within that time you incurred £1.548.79 and an arrangement fee of £149.00 for your new product. this is a total of £1.697.79.

 

Sorry I am a dope and don't know if I can claim or not. Of course I want to particually as we changed product with them.

 

 

????? Thanks Lizzy

 

PS still not received the penalty charges back yet.

 

Have you still got a mortgagte with them? And what rate was your old one as 10 years is a hell of a tie in.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Hi Lizzy,

 

You should be able to claim the Early Repayment Charge. The arrgangement fee is less clear cut as it probably relates to the new agreement rather than a consequence of breach of the old one.

 

If they have not paid after 14 days for the penalty charges I would whack a money claim on them and add the interest.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

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they've got til Monday to get me the money.

 

Cheque arrived this morning. Happy days..

If my reply or advice was helpful, please click the scales!

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Ohh you beat me to it. My cheque arrived this morning as well the whole £2275. That was only on a prelim letter so I'm chuffed.

 

 

Gizmo, we don't have a mortgage with them anymore. I can't remember the rate but I know it was high even about 7% but at that time mortgage rates were spiralling out of control. I did tell hubby that it was too long a tie in. As BM have not stated at what point/date we switched I don't know if that was a reasonable penalty or not. Lets say it was after 5 years is that a justified penalty or actual loss to them ?

 

Whats the next step in wording to them, is it simply "what were your actual losses?" Is there a template letter you used for this Thunderpuss? I cant seem to find anything.

 

Thanks all

 

Lizzy

 

 

 

Halifax

Sent LBA
27/6/06

Been on hol for a week, got home found letter from them dated
27/6/06 offer of £92 claiming £1155.10 so no deal.

Filed claim with Moneyclaim 12/07/06

Halifax acknowledged claim 25/7/06

Court papers received 28/7/06 Halifax intend to defend.

HALIFAX SETTLED IN FULL 1/8/06

Donation made

Birmingham Midshire (mortgage charges) Prelim letter sent 2nd Aug 2006, full offer received 11th Aug with conditions.

13th Aug accepted offer unconditionally.

BIRMINGHAM MIDSHIRES (MORTGAGE) SETTLED IN FULL 24/8/06

Sent SurlyBonds template letter to get defaults removed to Birmingham Midshires 27/08/06

DEFAULTS REMOVED 5/09/06.
THATS 9 DAYS LATER, YES 9 DAYS

 

 

 

 

 

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Ohh you beat me to it. My cheque arrived this morning as well the whole £2275. That was only on a prelim letter so I'm chuffed.

 

 

Gizmo, we don't have a mortgage with them anymore. I can't remember the rate but I know it was high even about 7% but at that time mortgage rates were spiralling out of control. I did tell hubby that it was too long a tie in. As BM have not stated at what point/date we switched I don't know if that was a reasonable penalty or not. Lets say it was after 5 years is that a justified penalty or actual loss to them ?

 

Whats the next step in wording to them, is it simply "what were your actual losses?" Is there a template letter you used for this Thunderpuss? I cant seem to find anything.

 

Thanks all

 

Lizzy

 

 

 

 

Try this - not written by myself but found on another thread. Unless it represents their true costs then it is not areasonable charge. Up to them to prove that not you.

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxx

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

My request

 

I am writing to ask you to refund £xxxxx in respect of a redemption fee levied on the above account. I now understand that such fees are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer Regulations.

 

In the case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract as oppose to a charge which represents a penalty. This law was confirmed and upheld in Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79. A charge will be held to be a penalty if the sum stipulated for is extravagant and unconscionable in amount in comparison to the greatest loss that could conceivably be proved to have followed from the breach. A penalty clause is void in its entirety and unenforceable.

In addition your charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). My account falls within the ambit of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as I am a consumer. Your charges constitute an unfair penalty under Schedule 2 of the said Regulations which provide an indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair. Under paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 this specifically includes terms which have the object of requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation. I would vigorously contend that this is the position regarding the fee of £xxxx which you deemed fit to apply to my account.

Furthermore a fee levied requiring me to indemnify you against any commercial risk to yourself in offering me a reduced interest rate in order to attract my custom is also contrary to s.4 Unlawful Contracts Terms Act 1977. I am confident that a court is likely to consider this clause to be unreasonable within s.11 of the said Act as a large commercial institution such as yourselves is in a far better placed position than me as a consumer to bear the burden of the vassitudes of business.

 

I would like to bring your attention to the following statement by The Office of Fair Trading:

 

"A term in a mortgage agreement which requires the borrower to pay more for breaching the contract terms than actual costs and losses caused to the lender by the breach (or a genuine pre-estimate of that) is likely to be regarded as an unfair penalty and to be unenforceable both at common law and (in a consumer mortgage) under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. A redemption charge may be regarded as a penalty even if it is expressed as the price for exercising a right rather than a consequence of breaking the agreement."

I believe that the charges you have levied of £xxxxfor early redemption far exceed any true cost to yourself as a result of our breach and any genuine pre-estimate you could conceivably reach. If you disagree, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put to as a result of our breaches, in order to reassure us that your charges really do reflect your costs.

 

Your responsibilities

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I took out the loan. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise. I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them. Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my rights until now.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

 

I really hope that this matter can be resolved amicably and without the need for redress to the courts. Thus I am asking that you refund the charge which has been unlawfully levied on my account. Failure to refund all the money unlawfully taken from me will result in me taking further action. I will give you 14 days to reply accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment. If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline. Thus take this letter as 28 days written notice of my intention to issue a court claim should you not comply with my request. I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

  • Confused 1

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Wow Gizmo thanks very very much. I hope you copied and pasted that. It must have taken you ages. It is very good though I really liked this bit

 

Furthermore a fee levied requiring me to indemnify you against any commercial risk to yourself in offering me a reduced interest rate in order to attract my custom is also contrary to s.4 Unlawful Contracts Terms Act 1977. I am confident that a court is likely to consider this clause to be unreasonable within s.11 of the said Act as a large commercial institution such as yourselves is in a far better placed position than me as a consumer to bear the burden of the vassitudes of business.

 

 

I will type it up as soon as I can.

 

Thanks again

 

Lizzy

 

Halifax

Sent LBA
27/6/06

Been on hol for a week, got home found letter from them dated
27/6/06 offer of £92 claiming £1155.10 so no deal.

Filed claim with Moneyclaim 12/07/06

Halifax acknowledged claim 25/7/06

Court papers received 28/7/06 Halifax intend to defend.

HALIFAX SETTLED IN FULL 1/8/06

Donation made

Birmingham Midshire (mortgage charges) Prelim letter sent 2nd Aug 2006, full offer received 11th Aug with conditions.

13th Aug accepted offer unconditionally.

BIRMINGHAM MIDSHIRES (MORTGAGE) SETTLED IN FULL 24/8/06

Sent SurlyBonds template letter to get defaults removed to Birmingham Midshires 27/08/06

DEFAULTS REMOVED 5/09/06.
THATS 9 DAYS LATER, YES 9 DAYS

 

 

 

 

 

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Congrats on your payouts!

 

The letter is really taking shape! It is a bit of a mishmash from various sources including the template. The bit about OFT provided by Gizmo and most of the legal bits by me. Its getting a little long but at least it leaves the banks in no doubt that we know our rights!

 

A word of warning if any one wants to use it make sure that you put it all in the same font as the font changes several times throughout!

Also I've spotted an error:

 

s.4 Unlawful Contracts Terms Act 1977.

 

Sorry that should be the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977

 

All the best

 

Zoot

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Thanks zootscoot. I really need the help, I'm a bit tied up at the moment with a default problem I need an answer to. I hope to type this redem penalty over the weekend. Glad some people know what they are talking about.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/26443-can-they-add-another.html

 

Any knowledge or thoughts on that one?

I know I'm a cheeky so and so
:rolleyes:

 

Thanks to everyone for all the help
;)

 

Halifax

Sent LBA
27/6/06

Been on hol for a week, got home found letter from them dated
27/6/06 offer of £92 claiming £1155.10 so no deal.

Filed claim with Moneyclaim 12/07/06

Halifax acknowledged claim 25/7/06

Court papers received 28/7/06 Halifax intend to defend.

HALIFAX SETTLED IN FULL 1/8/06

Donation made

Birmingham Midshire (mortgage charges) Prelim letter sent 2nd Aug 2006, full offer received 11th Aug with conditions.

13th Aug accepted offer unconditionally.

BIRMINGHAM MIDSHIRES (MORTGAGE) SETTLED IN FULL 24/8/06

Sent SurlyBonds template letter to get defaults removed to Birmingham Midshires 27/08/06

DEFAULTS REMOVED 5/09/06.
THATS 9 DAYS LATER, YES 9 DAYS

 

 

 

 

 

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Folks

 

What a great result, I am about to change lender from BM to another and will be following your lead in about 2 months time when I have switched.

 

I have only standard missed payment/arrears fees but there was no tie in so I will request a 24 month statemet now so I have all the info I need once I have switched.

 

Well done!!

If I have helped click my scales....

 

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it was for moving from one product to another without leaving them entirely.

 

Seems incredibly high - I was charged £149 a few months ago but I claimed it back saying it had never been expalined to me when I made the change, what does it actually say on your paperwork (if you have already posted this apologies)

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My penalty was with switching from one product to another with BM as well. Give it a go. What is there to lose.

 

Lizzy

 

Halifax

Sent LBA
27/6/06

Been on hol for a week, got home found letter from them dated
27/6/06 offer of £92 claiming £1155.10 so no deal.

Filed claim with Moneyclaim 12/07/06

Halifax acknowledged claim 25/7/06

Court papers received 28/7/06 Halifax intend to defend.

HALIFAX SETTLED IN FULL 1/8/06

Donation made

Birmingham Midshire (mortgage charges) Prelim letter sent 2nd Aug 2006, full offer received 11th Aug with conditions.

13th Aug accepted offer unconditionally.

BIRMINGHAM MIDSHIRES (MORTGAGE) SETTLED IN FULL 24/8/06

Sent SurlyBonds template letter to get defaults removed to Birmingham Midshires 27/08/06

DEFAULTS REMOVED 5/09/06.
THATS 9 DAYS LATER, YES 9 DAYS

 

 

 

 

 

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