Debt over 10 years old

[JP08]

Hi

 

I have today received a reply from HFC Bank after I sent the other letters to DLC above and it basically says This. (Sorry not got a scanner)

 

I write further to your letter dated 18th February 2009 and a subsequant letter from the financial ombudsman services dated 1st July 2009 in relation to your complaint. In accordance with our complaint handling proceedure this matter has now been reffered to me in order for me to reply on behalf of HFC Bank. Please accept my sincere appologies for the time taken to reply.

I am aware that your complaint is with regard to the above homeowner loan as HFC Bank has a registered charge on your property and you feel that we should remove this as has now been sold to Hillesden securities.

I have taken this opportunity to review the background of your complaint and have given careful consideration to the comments you have made, in addition to all the information available to me and advise that I am unable to uphold your complaint and have summarised below the basis on which I have made this decision.

I confirm the above account was opened on 30th October 1990 for the sum of £16,106.88. Our records show that you had difficulty in maintaining the repayments on the account during the early term of the agreement, and subsequently the account had been passed to an external agency Hillesden Securities on 14th April 2003.

With regards to the loan being set up as a second charge , during the initial application process of the home owner loan, you would have been clearly advised HFC would hold a second charge on your property. An Authority slip would have been signed by you giving authorisation to HFC Bank to Contact your Mortgate company to advise them that a second charge loan would be attached to the property.

It also states in the legal agreement that you signed that your home would be at risk if payments were not maintained. Although the account is now being administered by Hillesden Securities, under the terms and conditions of the orignal agreement HFC Bank would retain the charge on your property.

I have been in contact with Hillesden Securities and they have confirmed that you have arranged to pay £15 per month on the account and Hillesden Securities have agreed a settlement of £28,372.58. When we receive notification from Hillesden Securities that this has been paid we will remove the charge from your property.

Whilst I appreciate that this may not be the response you were hoping to receive. I trust my response has clarified our position in this matter.

It is important that your issues are fully addressed. Therefore, if you have any further queries relating to this matter, or remain dissatisfied, please do not hesitate to contact me and I will arrange for your complaint to be escalated. Alternatively, you may follow the steps detailed in our internal complaint proceedure.

As you are aware HFC Bank is a member of the Financial Ombudsman Service and ultimately, you have the right to refer your complaint to them as an independant adjudicator in disputes between banks and their customers.

I would also like to advise you that unless I hear from you within the next 8 weeks, I will assume that the matter is resolved to your satisfaction and my files will be closed.

Yours sincerely Blah Blah.

[JP08]

1) I have still not heard back from DLC regarding the original copy of agreement

2) Where is the original copy? All they sent me before was an unsigned so called agreement with an address I have never lived at

 

 

Any help would be appreciated on my next reply. I did copy the ombudsmaen on the letters I sent to DLC and asked for them to be added ot my complaint as they were asking for 28k + by credit/debit card only.

Thanks in advance

JP

[JP08]

Forgot to say on their database bumpf they sent me it says "Sold to Hillesden" Not assigned to

[JP08]

Hi

 

Should I send them the same letter I did to DLC but also ask where these so called slips are etc as well? The letter I got is note 126

Thanks would appreciate any advice.

JP

[steven4064]

'sold to' and 'asssigned to' mean the same thing effectively.

 

Presumably, the original loan amount was >25k - in which case the agreement is not regulated by the CCA 1974 (unless it says otherwise on the agreement itself)

[JP08]

Hi Steven

Ok, so what should I do?

JP08

[steven4064]

I've not been following the thread, I'm afraid (just bobbed in once or twice)

 

The agreement could still be regulated if they have put "regulated by the CCA 1974" on the top. If notm you have no protection from that Act.

 

You still have mis-sold PPI (if it applies), statute barred (if that applies) and any protection offered by 'normal' contract law (eg with regard to penalties) and unfair terms regulations (it is still a consumer contract).

[JP08]

Ok, what I think I will do is send the same letter that I sent to DLC in note 128. on my link. So far under the SAR I sent to HFC 2 years ago. all I received was an unsigned agreement at an address I have never lived at. The original loan was £16,106.88, and it says on the database at HFC bank that they sold it to Hillessden. on my credit rating the debt was zero in Dec 2002. And sold to Hillesdon supposedly in Jan 2003. What I am trying to do is get the charge off my property as I belive it to be there illegally.

I am just wondering what else I can do other than get them to produce the evidence. My note 126 is the letter they have written to me and which I need to respond to. I think they had even fogot about it until I asked for it to be removed.

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

JP

[steven4064]

If there is a charge on your poperty, there must also be a CCJ. You will need to get that set aside.

[JP08]

Hi

Called the court a while ago and they said there were no ccjs that were still in existance

so there is nothing to put aside.

 

I know they sold the debt but trying to get the charge off has been really time consuming. Any advice to reply to their letter would be greatfully received

Thanks

JP

[steven4064]

All CCJs are on a database which you can saerch - CCJs, court orders & fines - Search yourself and others - Trust Online

[JP08]

Hi

Thanks for this, the charge was supposedly a voulantary one? I dont think there ever was a ccj in the 1st place. Only ones that were for separate accounts that were not linked to the charge on the property? does this still apply?

[JP08]

does anyone know the differenc between a so called voluntary charge and one with a CCJ?

[caro]

I know that I signed for a charge to be put on my mothers property when she went into a nursing home so that when it was sold the fees would be paid. I guess that would have been a voluntary charge.

[JP08]

Hi Thanks for that.

I have heard back from the ombudsman and basically they have ignored what I said about DLC and the payment by credit card by 31st July for a sum of 28k+

And have also said they will not continue with it until I hear back from HFC Bank. I have now so will send them a copy of the letter.

Fact is though, I do have a copy of their database entry stating that the debt was sold to (not assigned or administered by Hillesden). So the charge should have been taken off my property back then shouldn't it? also on my credit rating it was dropped to Zero balance in Dec 2002. DLC started coming after me in Jan 2003.

As far as I know you cannot have a charge on someones property without a debt attached to it? I just need to know how to tackle it? any ideas would be very helpful right now.

 

Thanks

JP

[JP08]

Hi

 

I have now sent DLC a second letter as they have not responded and HFC the request for a copy of the signed agreement and a copy of this slip they say I would have signed? I don't remember signing anything like that. So now playing the waiting game

 

JP

[JP08]

Hi Hillesden/DLC have now written back to me and have said basically that they would like to appologise for the content of the letter they sent me stating that they wanted £28K + by credit card within 4 days and that it was not their intention to pressurise me in to increasing payments beyond my means????? they are also still going on about a charge (which of course would be a second charge for the same debt) being put on the property but it would only be if granted for security only and not to seek an order for the sale of the property? the sole reasoning is to obtain tangible security. The letter from HFC said that Hillesden were acting on their behalf and yet this letter says that they have requested a copy of the original document from the orginal lender, which to me states they think they purchased this debt? they are both sending me letters that contradict each other and DLC have also been doing the phone calls call us by end of play today or else bit and the letter also states I should call them to discuss realistic payments? I am ignoring them on that. Noone has still come up with any evidence of a debt or a sale of this debt. I am still waiting on HFC as I am going through their complaints procedure again after the ombudsman said they had told HFC to deal with it an will not intefere, unless they dont reply with a satisfactory conclusion?

 

Should I send a letter back to Hillesden saying that I have received their letter, but as I have said already everything in writing, I am waiting on the producing on a valid document before I pay anymore than my £15 a month and I am only paying that because it stops them ringing me every 5 minutes. Or what else would you suggest? any help would be appreciated.

JP

[caro]

To be honest I wouldn't pay them a penny if they can't produce evidence that they own the debt. If they persist in ringing you send them this. http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/52-harassment/135--harassment-by-telephone-response-letter-

[JP08]

Hi Caro

Thanks for this, they have called ma again this morning and I had 5 missed calls as well. I will send this letter off. Thanks for your help!

JP

[JP08]

Hi, finally I have had a reply about my complaint about the charge and copy of agreement from HFC Bank. Can someone please help me on what my next step should be?

Just to go over it again, I now have it in writing that neither HFC Bank Nor Hillesden/DLC have a copy of the agreement.

HFC also say that they assigned the debt and the charge to Hillesden? I believe that means they cannot keep the charge in their name and it should have been taken off at the time of the assignment? as there is no debt to HFC Bank?

They also mention the credit ref agencies and there is no credit history to do with this debt? are they trying to make me incriminate myself?

I have copied and pasted below the contents of the letter, any advice you can give me would be much appreciated. I understand that this one is complicated. I have not paid them this month, but I need some help with the letters to both HFC and Hillesden. in particular about the charge still in place as I believe that to be illegal. You can't have a charge on the property after you have sold the alleged debt?

 

I have copied the contents of the letter below

Many Thanks

JP

[JP08]

PO Box 3607, Birmingham, B 1 2XJ

Tel: 0845 6023793

Our Ref: xxx

4 December 2009

Dear

Re:

I write further to your letter dated 30 August 2009 informing us of your concerns. I am sorry to learn that

you remain dissatisfied with your previous communication with HFC Bank. This matter has now been

referred to me as a member ofthe Executive Complaints Department in accordance with HFC Bank's

complaint handling procedure. Firstly, please accept my apologies that you have had cause to contact us

and for the delay you have experienced in receiving a response to the concerns you have raised

Having read the contents of your letter I am aware that you have requested a copy of your Legal Agreement

with regards to the above account. In addition to this, you are dissatisfied that a charge remains on your

Credit File, despite the assignment of the account to Hillsden Securities. You have also stated that you

have not agreed to a settlement of £28,372.58 with Hillsden Securities.

Having conducted a full investigation into the matters you have raised, I write to advise that I am unable to

uphold your complaint and I have summarised below the basis on which I have reached this decision.

With regard to your request for a copy of the Legal Agreement, I regret to advise that I have been unable to

obtain a copy. I apologise for any inconvenience or concern caused as this certainly was not our intention.

In relation to the charge registered against your property, I can confirm that the charge was indeed passed

to Hillsden Securities upon assignment of the account to them. As the charge was originally registered in

favour of HFC Bank, it will continue to appear in our name. Once the account is settled in full, HFC Bank

will remove the charge from your property, upon receipt of confirmation from Hillsden Securities.

I also note you have stated that you did not agree a settlement with Hillsden Securities for the amount of

£28,372.58. I would respectfully advise that you contact Hillsden Securities in respect of this matter, as

HFC Bank has only informed you of the information provided by them.

Whilst HFC Bank has been unable to provide you with a copy of the legal agreement, I can confirm the

above account was opened on 30 October 1990 and is held in your name, xxx and

Mr xxx. In addition HFC Bank holds personal details which were supplied by you upon application,

such as date of birth, employment details.

Whilst monthly payments to your account have not been maintained in line with the terms and conditions,

the payments that have been received, have been submitted by yourself and therefore it is reasonable to

conclude that you are aware and acknowledge this debt.

In summary, upon reviewing the account history, our records confirm you have conducted the above

account in a way that suggests you have a relationship with the bank. In view of this HFC Bank holds you

liable for the outstanding balance on the above account.

You are entitled to enter a statement on the records at the Credit Reference Agencies to explain your

payment record. This will allow any other credit grantors to see your statement and take it into

consideration.

I have listed below the addresses for the relevant Credit Reference Agencies for you to contact should you

wish to pursue this mater.

Experian Ltd

Consumer Help Service

PO Box 40

Riverleen House

Electric Ave

Nottingham

NG72SS

Callcredit Ltd

PO Box 491

Leeds

LS31WZ

Equifax UK Ltd

Equifax Pic

Credit File Advice Centre

PO Box 1140

Bradford

BD15US

I realise that this may not be the response you were hoping to receive but it does nevertheless bring to an

end the steps available to you through our internal complaint handling procedure. Should you remain

dissatisfied the bank is obliged to advise you of your right to refer your complaint to the Financial

Ombudsman Service, as this letter constitutes our final response.

Further details about the Ombudsman scheme are set out in the enclosed leaflet and you have six months

from the date ofthis letter within which to refer your complaint to them should you decide to do so.

Yours sincerely

.,

Sham Akhtar

Complaints Investigator

b:eeutiw Complaints Depmtment

Ene Financial Ombudsman Service Leaflet

[caro]

How long ago was the charge put on the property?

 

Were you informed that this was going to happen and did you try and defend it? If not, why not?

[JP08]

Hi Caro

The charge was put on the house in 1990. there was no chance to defend it as there was no court case. It just appeared and they said it was voluntary?

I am not paying them any more as I only started paying them in the forst place because of threats of taking my house when I had two baby's to look after. Can they do anything to me? This debt is not mine, it is my ex's and he is not even on the deeds anymore

Please help?

Thanks

JP

[caro]

Hi Caro

The charge was put on the house in 1990. there was no chance to defend it as there was no court case. It just appeared and they said it was voluntary?

 

No idea how that can happen.

I am not paying them any more as I only started paying them in the forst place because of threats of taking my house when I had two baby's to look after.

 

How long have you been paying?

 

Can they do anything to me? This debt is not mine, it is my ex's and he is not even on the deeds anymore

 

Have you got a copy of the charging order and have you got proof it's just in his name?

 

Please help?

Thanks

JP

We'll see what we can do.

[JP08]

They said it was a voluntary one taken out when the loan was taken out?

I have been paying Hillesden since 2005 only a token payment as they kept threatening me. Hillesden also tried to take me to court to put yet another charge on the house a couple of years ago. They dropped it when they found out there was one already

 

No I do not have a copy of the charging order, I do not think there was one. I have never seen it anyway. I will find the extract on my post of what was on a document about the charge.

This whole debt, was for Bank accounts that he had with them consolidated in to one debt

Thanks

JP