Egg credit card agreement terminated

[cosalt]

Just discovered something new about the termination agreement today.

Will not go into detail as it is not in the best interests to publish it at the moment.

 

But Egg very clearly know they made a mistake with this letter.

 

 

You have PM

[BEC01]

...

 

Cosalt, in response to your PM.

I think I can post this without upsetting certain people, and it may be for the greater good - which is what this is all about.

 

This is the way I see it.

 

1. Write to the DCA, enclosing a copy of the 1st termination letter. State that you no longer had a contract with Egg after the 35 day notice period.

 

2. Point out that as it was a credit card, it was a revolving service. This is different from a loan that has a fixed period.

 

3. Following on from 2; if Egg wished to terminate the agreement, they had the right to demand repayment prior to that. However, they clearly chose not to do so.

 

4. Upon termination of the agreement (35 days after the notice letter), if they had not requested full payment of the balance prior to that, they then ceased to have the right to demand any outstanding balance.

 

So, it was basically their choice to give up their right to;

 

1. Process your data with a CRA.

2. Request payment from you with regard to that account (as it has ceased to exist), and any outstanding balance.

3. Maintain the account. It should have been closed as there is no contract to govern it.

 

You should point out that this is an extremely serious situation, and that the DCA should strongly consider their role within this. Particularly the implications that it may have with regard to its registered directors. I would also get the names of the registered directors from Companies House (costs £1), and make sure you send a copy to them as well. They really need to be aware of this. Maybe they don't deserve it, but in my opinion it is a responsible thing to do to notify them. They may thank you for it

 

ONCE AGAIN THIS IS JUST AN OPINION - NOT LEGAL ADVICE - ONLY BASED ON WHAT HAS BEEN POSTED HERE, SO I MAY NOT HAVE THE FULL FACTS.

 

If any of the more experienced members here disagree, please post a message to help.

 

We're off to see a Solicitor about this next week. So any advice will be passed on.

 

Edited February 2, 2009 by BigEddieChek
Might affect case.

[phatram]

Perhaps someone could do a template letter?

[bathgatebuyer]

I received a letter from Egg today telling me that they are still considering my request for further info as to why they raised my APR a month before cancelling the account and asked if this was part of an across the board change in their management of customer accounts.

 

They said they will be back in touch within the next 4 weeks.

[BEC01]

Perhaps someone could do a template letter?

 

Good idea.

Anyone help?

[militantconsumer]

There is an interesting thread about the interest rise that took place just before the cancellations:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/172901-call-information-cancelled-egg.html

 

They only raised the rate for the customers who they were going to ditch.

[BEC01]

...

Edited February 2, 2009 by BigEddieChek

[militantconsumer]

Well, I guess we could be charitable to the aggressive banks and DCAs and call it nothing more serious than "payments made under mistake" a la photoman's thread:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/175553-payments-made-under-mistake.html

 

Can't imagine what else you could be implying, BEC!

[BEC01]

Wasn't really implying, just making an observation that there are two legal terms that could be applied to the aforementioned situation.

 

 

[cosalt]

I am asking egg to give me all my payments back from when my agreement was terminated.

[Mistermind]

Wasn't really implying, just making an observation that there are two legal terms that could be applied to the aforementioned situation.

 

 

These issues were hotly discussed when 161,000 Egg cardholders were bundled out on the same day, and required to continue paying monthy interest at credit card rates.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1366587.html

 

Lets say after one year's marriage, the marriage contract was terminated, physically by living apart and legally by both parties declaring this to be the final ending using phrases like "termination of agreement".

 

From the day of parting the previous agreement no longer exists. The previous agreement does not however vanish into thin air -- that can only happen after a marriage annulment rendering all previous events and obliations null and void as if events never occurred.

 

Barring an annulment the issues of property and children involved during the previous agreement still need to be settled under the terms of the previous agreement. The past is not revoked, it is the future which is wiped out. IF that is what the judge rules.

[BEC01]

Look forward to your results.

And best of luck.

 

I expect you will need to take them to court - or very close to it - otherwise you will get fobbed-off by them in their usual arrogant manner.

[cosalt]

Look forward to your results.

And best of luck.

 

I expect you will need to take them to court - or very close to it - otherwise you will get fobbed-off by them in their usual arrogant manner.

 

Thanks, I already have my 'Form N1' ready to fill in, no satisfactory response within 14 days and the form will be going in.

 

Interesting point, I went on line to my egg account tonight to see how much I have paid them since they terminated it. It is still shown as live with a credit limit in excess of the balance.

 

One thought, even though they sent me the letter saying they would terminate in 35 days, they never actually sent me a letter saying they had done so after the 35 days. Is this a requirement ?

[thekat1979]

subbing - Egg terminated my agreement last Jan without any probs on the account from me, they had raised my interest rate to 26.9% a bit before...I'm still paying minimum payments, but because of the new interest rate, i'm paying nothing more than the interest each month - the balance is going down by maybe a couple of pence...well it was until I had one missed payment because my bank bounced a payment because my money went in a day late...now I have 3 months of late payment and returned DD fees, and they are about to default me. Grr!

[BEC01]

In your case at least, no they did not need to contact you again.

 

I quote, "...we are giving you formal notice that your agreement will end 35 days after the date of this letter".

 

This is totally clear and unambiguous.

So, your Egg Card Agreement ended on 6th March 2008.

 

If they wanted you to clear the balance, but not use the card, what they should have done is kept the agreement, but changed the terms to withdraw the card, and to reduce the limit accordingly each month.

 

The more one looks at this letter, the more it seems it may not have been issued with the company's best interest at heart...

 

For the quote at the beginning of this post to then be followed by "The Egg Card agreement continues to apply until the balance is paid in full" in the same letter is absolutely breathtaking.

 

It cannot, unless the balance was paid in full before or on 6th March 2008. Thereafter, there is no agreement, therefore no debt.

 

Simple.

Edited January 29, 2009 by BigEddieChek
Further info.

[cosalt]

I may need some help from cag with my particulars of claim....................

[BEC01]

I am out of my depth with regard to that I'm afraid.

Hopefully someone will come along soon.

 

I really think you will get a very good result.

 

It may need special attention, which is why I suggest legal advice if you can.

[phatram]

Secure message sent,

 

Would you be so kind as to send me a copy of the Termination notice for my Egg card and also would you please send me a copy of the credit agreement for the account.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79) I am entitled to receive a copy of the credit agreement on request. I authorise you to take the £1 fee from our savings account which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Mrs P:)

 

 

EGGS reply,

 

Dear MRS P

The balance on your Egg Card account as on 30 January 2009 is showing as £XXXXX

 

I'll be checking the quickest way to get this posted out to you with my manager and may get it posted out Recorded Delivery to ensure that you sign for it too.

 

Thanks for your message.

 

Regards

 

XXXXX XXXX

Internet Customer Services

 

NOT WHAT I ASKED FOR !

Mrs P:mad:

[phatram]

Hi,

May I repeat,

Would you be so kind as to send me a copy of the Termination notice for my Egg card(thats the one you sent me to terminate my card account) and also would you please send me a copy of the credit agreement for the account.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79) I am entitled to receive a copy of the credit agreement on request. I authorise you to take the £1 fee from our savings account which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Mrs P

[BEC01]

These issues were hotly discussed when 161,000 Egg cardholders were bundled out on the same day, and required to continue paying monthy interest at credit card rates.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1366587.html

 

Lets say after one year's marriage, the marriage contract was terminated, physically by living apart and legally by both parties declaring this to be the final ending using phrases like "termination of agreement".

 

From the day of parting the previous agreement no longer exists. The previous agreement does not however vanish into thin air -- that can only happen after a marriage annulment rendering all previous events and obliations null and void as if events never occurred.

 

Barring an annulment the issues of property and children involved during the previous agreement still need to be settled under the terms of the previous agreement. The past is not revoked, it is the future which is wiped out. IF that is what the judge rules.

 

Don't think this analogy fits for several reason.

Most importantly, the contract was terminated in writing, with a very specific timescale.

 

They could have done it very differently and put in settlement terms.

However, Egg chose not to.

 

It is very simple: a service (revolving credit) was withdrawn and the contract that governed it terminated.

 

Therefore, no further payments should have been made, no more reporting to CRAs, and the account closed.

[Mistermind]

It is very simple: a service (revolving credit) was withdrawn and the contract that governed it terminated.

 

 

If a contract of employment is terminated and this came in front of a judge,

will he rule that past salary earned before contract termination and still unpaid, "it is very simple" terminated and no longer payable?

[BEC01]

Of course not, but it is a very different type of contract.

Plus if the employee chose to remove their services, they would give notice (for example, 35 days) and would also ask for any monies owed up until that point are paid in full. In fact, most employment contracts that I have seen cover this situation.

 

So, to take that comparison, Egg's removal of services should also have asked for full settlement - if that is what they intended.

 

Surely if their intention was only to withdraw the ability to take payments from the account, they would simply have ammended the terms of the contract to reflect this?

[cosalt]

If a contract of employment is terminated and this came in front of a judge,

will he rule that past salary earned before contract termination and still unpaid, "it is very simple" terminated and no longer payable?

 

I don't think normal logic applies to this, any credit agreement is governed by the CCA 1974. If the agreement is cancelled then the CCA 1974 can not apply as there is no agreement to apply it to.

 

Therefore by charging interest or demanding payment or anything else they need to be governed by the CCA, how can they when no agreement exists ?

[BEC01]

Mistermind makes two very good points.

And I agree with the principle of what you borrow you should repay.

Let's be very clear about this.

 

But, I have seen an awful lot of businesses and people that have been absolutely shafted by the financial sector recently.

 

They have no morals, and have not followed legislation in a lot of cases.

 

This is a big blunder by Egg, and a superb opportunity for the consumer to gain some form of justice.

Let us not forget how these businesses penalise us on a regular basis for our mistakes (e.g. going over limit, or forgetting to make a payment on time, or forgetting to change direct debits).

 

If they have made a mistake, then why shouldn't they be penalised?

 

As I have mentioned previously; collecting payments where there is no existing credit agreement, alongside the fact that adverse data will be recorded if you do not make payments, is an extremely serious situation.

Edited January 30, 2009 by BigEddieChek
Additional info.

[cosalt]

Well my letter has gone today, they have 14 days to come up with a valid argument. If not its court. TBH I have nothing to loose, even if they end up winning and I get a judgement I can only afford to pay them a small amount monthly anyway.

 

Wish me luck !