Inside a DCA!

[andrew1]

1) A certain DCA who I have been known to frequent , having been sent a Subject Access Request send a response to alleged debtors of 'typical letter which have been sent to you' meaning template letters with no actual personal details or address just the templates which would have been mail merged and some poor soul then writes on the top of each page the dates they apparently had been sent.

 

What is your take on the legality of complying with their obligations under the Data Protection Act when they send out such tosh?

 

2) A credit card debt sold to same DCA showed a default on the Credit report the same day as it was bought, given your previous response re defaults - what right would a DCA have to do that when no arrangements had been entered into at that point?

 

 

3) Geoffrey Parker Bourne (sols) obtained a ccj on a Cr.card debt in 2004 They were cca'd and the result was that no agreement could be found by the oc. They replied and said debt would not be pursued. Fine. Wrote asking for evidence of what they relied upon to obtain CCJ - no response. Wrote again asking for ccj to be declared unlawful if no agreement was in place - no response - any suggestions as to what should be done in your opinion?

 

 

Thanks for your input by the way. forgive the multi questions, but easier that way and hundreds lining up behind me!

 

Sarah

[andrew1]

Ok a different type of question for you.

 

I gain a CCJ against a company they fail/refuse to pay up. I want my money.

 

Can i sell this debt to a dca and ask what ever money i want for it as in the amount of money they should have paid me not a reduced amount.?

 

How about sending them a 21 day winding up order - that'll focus their attention.

[andrew1]

yeah my friend had thought of those but it would not be as satisafing for her as them having a DCA chase them.

 

After all the hassel they caused her she wants them to have the same type.

 

But having on camera the fact that they are having computers etc removed and then sold for the debt would be fun.

 

i think we all would get a laugh out of that

 

You don't need a dca all you need is a bailiff if you have the CCJ already on a company. - You don't have to sell the debt at all.

[andrew1]

From the sales Agreements we received between Cabot (DCA) and their bank clients it is vividly clear that only 10% of all purchased accounts are accompanied by any documents at all. The data is transfered on 2 CD's with basic information regarding the account, the amount, the default date and the contact details. IF Cabot wish for any further information they have to pay the bank for the pleasure - now hands up on guessing how many times they paid further info?

 

They do not have the Agreements - period - IMHO.

[andrew1]

Over the last 2 yrs there have always been people who have the attitude that people who owe money are irresponsible retrobates totally devoid of any morals regarding their finances. Ignore them and don't give them air time.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and a public forum is just that- public so their view is entirely welcome whether misguided or not. I think we all know the realities of how debt begins, how difficult it is to control and how difficult it is to get out of - if it weren't for the people coming on here and helping, listening, guiding others through the maze these institutions and dca's would still be reigning havoc with a vengence. As it is, whether they like to admit it or not they are having to change their practices big time and the industry media is full of counter proposals to the regulations and changes that have been demanded by the tens of thousands who have brought these issue out into the open. I am a proud member of CAG and the Cabot Fan Club and proud of the fact that we have led a considerable amount of people to complain and make these changes happen.

 

There will be others coming on, but remember they come because they are on their back foot and losing the battle and the freedom they had to do what they like. Hold your heads high and congratulate yourselves and treat these people with the contempt they deserve. Each and every one of you have helped change an enormous, complacent, unregulated industry so keep it up.

 

Onthebrink began a fine momentum on this thread about the dca's which is badly needed, but the whole of page 12 is draining the momentum - lets try and keep to the thread purpose and limit the banter (which is great for many low in spirit after being attacked by these dca's), but is losing the threads focus IMHO.

 

 

Sarah

[andrew1]

There's a term 'unjust enrichment' which might be worth exploring.

[andrew1]

Going off track - When a defaulted account is in the hands of a dca does the collected money get passed back to the original creditor?

 

You need to establish whether the dca has bought the debt or just collecting on behalf of the Original Creditor and acting as an agent. If it's collecting as an agent then the monies get passed back to the original creditor and the dca gets a % commission for collecting. If it's sold then the DCA keeps it having already paid a small % in the £ for the alleged amount of debt for the 'purchase' of the debt, invariably somewhere between 7% - 12% of the face value. What they collect thereafter is theirs to keep which is what makes the industry so lucrative ie: they pay £100 for a £1000 debt which they attempt to collect from us, if we pay it all they make £900 - not a bad days work!

 

Collection charges come in different guises and not always legit..which charges are you referring to?

 

Sarah

[andrew1]

Any Creditor or DCA that have agreed to the terms of CAIS by signing up to the information sharing scheme have a duty to provide the CRA with any information that '...would be of benefit to other CAIS members in determining credit facilities'.

 

A duty to whom? and who lays the rules down for this 'duty to be abided by'? Is this another one of these self regulated boys clubs within the credit Industry to share details between themselves for their own benefit by any chance?

[andrew1]

Sorry, maybe I didn't make myself clear.

 

"Any Creditor or DCA that have agreed to the terms of CAIS by signing up to the information sharing scheme"

 

So, back to basics, Who or what EXACTLY is CAIS? I believe it is a scheme which banks, finance companies, Companies giving credit out generally, some 400 of them can sign up to to obtain certain information and share information about potential customers credit histories.

 

Who set it up?

 

Is it tied to any legislation or regulatory body?

 

Who runs it?

[andrew1]

oops..

[andrew1]

So, just like the CRA's themselves they are a system they project themselves to all outsiders as some kind of authorititive system set up as a kind of 'legal requirement' so everyone thinks it's an official system or body, just like the post above I quoted, that's the way it comes across, but in fact it's just another boys club system set up to benefit the Credit Industry and the Vultures who feed off it..nice one.

 

The trouble is that the Customer Services teams who we complain to all start quoting these things as "well that's the law so you have to put up with it attitude" as they do about CRA's. When is the Credit Industry going to begin to start doing things legally and properly?

[andrew1]

Yes. Just found out Akap and Debt manager ltd are one and same. Am suprised I didnt realise they pass from one to another to intimidate, when actually same company. What a silly man I am. :o

 

You or anyone else on here are not silly. This is the Debt Collection Industry in all its glory.Tricking their way into peoples lives and intimidating them with certain degrees of deceit. Make them abide by the very laws they try to use on us and they fall down most of the time.

[andrew1]

Thank you for all the information given in all these posts. I keep getting emails offering me a free experian credit check and was thinking of doing one to see how my credit file is these days. I definately will not now lol. I know I have a very old bank debt that I have not heard from for at least 4 years and I am hoping it will be statute barred? is that right lol so I don't want to stick my head up from behind the rocks yet

Thanks again

 

You've got a long way to go yet and after all that waiting, one month before its' time - it's 6 years - you'll get a dca on the phone so don't begin rejoicing yet.

[andrew1]

 

Sorry to answer PMs here, but if you asked then I'm sure someone else needs to know.

 

Why do DCAs pass my debt on?

 

Basically because they have run the debt cycle and the chance of recovery is nil. As I said in an earlier post, they are working on % of debtors and turnover of accounts. If the supervisor has determined they won't get paid it will be passed on.

 

 

If I move address can the OC/DCA find me?

Not if you move to the moon. . At some point in the future your going to go looking for debt again (sorry credit ), and they link you with two key pieces of information - you date of birth and you place of birth (the chances of two joe bloggs born in Hackney on the 25 Feb 1905 is rare!), your address is only the first port of call.

 

DCAs have a number of routes to find you -

 

Spoof websites offering credit (you get rejected but they have the info)

Mobile phone contracts

HP agreements

Mortgage applications.

On-line marketing surveys

Electoral register

 

 

 

If this is true then this is a disgrace, can you name and shame a few for us so we can give them the Cabot Fan Club treatment? - Don't know what that is? - ask Ken Maynard

 

Sarah

[andrew1]

great advice.

 

someone give onthebrink a medal!

 

What, another one !

[andrew1]

cus4loans.co.uk

 

their not even subtle:

 

 

'Cus4Loans.co.uk is a website operated by The Slice Ltd. The Slice Ltd is licensed under the Data Protection Acts. Registered Company Number: 02860905 Registered Office : 25 Ormside Way, Redhill, Surrey. RH1 2LW. Data Protection Number: Z8414369

The Slice is a marketing and IT systems organisation and does not offer any financial advice. Think carefully before taking out a loan.'

 

Give it a try, you'll be lucky to get a response

 

That's what they said about Cabot - Didn't kinda end up that way :D

[andrew1]

Do you know the name of any of the other 'spoof' websites purporting to be brokers

 

See post 501 JonCris

[andrew1]

When we started the Cabot Fan Club we said from the very outset " all we want them to do is abide by the law" that was all and I don't think many on here feel much differently. We only started hammering them and the other dca's because they just wouldn't do what the law states they should and we will continue to do so until they stop playing their own stupid games and trying to get away with what they have done for the past 40 years. Some are changing, others are taking longer to get the message, but overall we are winning over, it just is hard for them to realise their game is up. Keep up the pressure, keep complaining, keep making sure they provide you with the information you require and are entitled to under the law of the CCA and maybe, just maybe they'll get the message however much it hurts them. I do not feel one bit sorry for them, I have to run my own business within the law and so must they. If they don't? well, they have to take whats thrown at them. Keep on using the synergy of this forum and others and keep hitting them where it hurts until they do as they are supposed to. That's ALL we ask.

 

 

Sarah

[andrew1]

I appreciate your perspective OTB but the law remains the law and if DCA's start riding roughshod over it by disclosing personal data to strangers then they deserve everything they get too. Even if someone does a runner the DCA needs to respect the law otherwise what's the point of the law. A friend asked for advise on giving forwarding addresses when she moved and my advice was simple. Tell those you accept money to you have moved, set up royal mail redirection and make your mind up as to whether to tell the rest as and when they fulfill their legal obligations re. CCAs etc. They'll find out your new address anyway but it's not your job to tell them.

 

Just let you into a little secret: Royal Mail SELL your redirection information to these creeps. Someone tried to 'ID theft' me put a redirection order on my property. On my Credit file pops up this new address in Surrey as an 'associated address' How? I lost my Nectar card ( Sainsburys points card not a credit card) and applied for a new one they asked me if I wanted it sent to new address in Surrey "Where did you get that from" I asked. - " Royal Mail!!!," we are informed when these Redirections are applied for ' to save customers the trouble of having to inform everyone!!!! Oh YEAH???

 

 

Nothing, absolutely NOTHING is secret...

 

 

Sarah.

[andrew1]

Re andrew1 at post 570.

When you redirect mail there is a little box for you to tick if you don't want them to automatically tell the sender. I did this and haven't had any problems.

 

Newborn

 

'The sender?' I think what you find is that like any mailing list, your details are sold on to all and sundry. They might not tell the sender, but that's not to say these tracing agents and dca's don't BUY the list. I guess one could check that out with Royal Mail if you can find the people who deal with it, but that was my understanding. Just like Registry Trust, the outfit 'not for profit' organisation which records all CCJ's from the courts across the country. They SELL all those details on to Sub-Prime Loan companies for Vast amounts ( and I mean VAST) amounts of money who then target those in financial difficulty.

 

Nothing's sacred anymore.

[andrew1]

OTB - One of those medals back please! :D

[andrew1]

..are we really following like sheep?

 

Maybe I gotta give back the medal again!!!

 

..and car, ever heard of 'variations on a theme'? Well like Dannyboy says dca's are a mutitude of sins and any variation is appropriate I feel on this thread-everything so far has been useful and enlightening to those who didn't have a clue about DCA's. IMHO..

[andrew1]

Happy to agree to disagree - differences of opinion are welcome here, after all. (OTB's thread proves this very point)

 

Who knows, maybe OTB's next installment will include what DCA's do (or do not do) with Redirection information gleamed from Royal Mail - in which case I'll get back in my box and shut it.

 

I'm all for maintaining the quality of the thread, but sometimes posters go so far off topic that the thread requires moderation (or a "little poke" in the right direction from those without moderator obligations) to keep it on topic.

 

My point Car was that DCA's also buy lists from no end of places for tracing. Royal Mail sell lists of redirections and not just to Public Bodies, Nectar, who are nothing to do with credit bought my details which were used to defraud a credit card company. I found out 2 years later, had the crook been granted the credit he was looking for I would also have had a DCA chasing me too. But I agree, it's good we all have opinions, that's what makes CAG what it is..

[andrew1]

There will always be people coming on here who stand out and just by the very nature of this forum, differing views can go either way, especially when their observations and posts get challenged. Surelybonds being a classic example. It didn't suit everyone's taste the way the detail was being placed for public scrutiny, but there was a lot of really revealing information that has helped so many. Whether or not OTB is genuine, I don't mind one way or another, but there have been insights provided by him/her for many who come on here who had absolutely no idea how a dca worked and to that end it has helped. For those who have spent a couple of years on here digging away and reading about them, there was not a lot of anything new, but consolidated into one thread must have helped many so from that point of view I say we'd been better having it rather than not - I can't imagine anyone working in the credit industry with a dca will be affected emotionally by any of the challenges thus far by those that have questioned their reasoning, but if they were well intentioned and genuine one can understand why when challenged they might think ' what the hell - why should I bother?'.

 

It might be worth saying that the more experienced of us of the DCA market just keep an eye on the thread if indeed OTB comes back and just give a balanced view rather than making such an outright challenge, then the posters and readers who do not understand this murky world of DCA's will learn the basics and get a feel for how to deal with them, we can then guide them on their threads if needs be.

 

Just my honest opinion..

[andrew1]

everyone will have their own views it just that mine are rather than do what most trolls do.........making statements which, even to the uninitiated, are wrong this one was attempting to be a little more subtle but the goal was the same

 

Nor do I think they were alone on the thread as they made reference to someone contacting them, I assume via PM, who knew who they were

 

Yes, but I feel that someone with your experience JonCris and the many of us who already dug extremely deep into DCA life would be well able to maneuver a way around the obvious 'errors' and correct them with the ability we have with carefully selected words. Confrontation always sends people packing sadly and we really don't know exactly what intentions anyone has on here. We should know better if we suspect and just let them play their game and let the uninitiated extract the good parts and we more experienced ones tactfully challenge anything suspect to keep a balanced view. I never like seeing anyone with anything useful leaving the forum. After all, a forum is about exchanging views.