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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Citi Refusing to send copyof CCA


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I may have confused you :confused:

 

The 2006 Act contains various remedies not available to agreements that are regulated by the 1974 Act. One such remedy is to not allow the creditor to add interest or default charges where they have failed to provide statements that are required under s.6 CCA 2006, (which inserts s.77A in to the 1974 Act) for example, as follows;

 

s.6(6); (which is s.77A(6))

 

Where this subsection applies in relation to a failure to give a statement under this section to the debtor—

(a) the creditor shall not be entitled to enforce the agreement during the period of non-compliance;

(b) the debtor shall have no liability to pay any sum of interest to the extent calculated by reference to the period of non-compliance or to any part of it; and

© the debtor shall have no liability to pay any default sum which (apart from this paragraph)—

(i) would have become payable during the period of non-compliance; or

(ii) would have become payable after the end of that period in connection with a breach of the agreement which occurs during that period (whether or not the breach continues after the end of that period).

 

The point I was making in your case is that, where they can't provide an agreement, they can't prove you've agreed to any interest or default charges been applied to the account.

 

In fact, check this out;

 

Quite right, to suggest anything else would go against Wilson & FCT,Wilson & Hurstanger,Dimond & Lovell and London North Securities & Meadows. as all these cases set out rather clear that the credit agreement is needed to determine the parties rights under the agreement

 

i also found this little gem in Sir Andrew Morrits Judgment in the Court of Appeal in the Wilson & FCT case, i note that the House of Lords have not disturbed this part of his judgment since the HoL only looked at the issue of S127 being compatible with the Human Rights Act

 

In effect, the creditor--by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms--must (in the light of the provisions in ss 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift,of the loan moneys to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the moneys in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid;”

 

Apologies if I've confused you...

 

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Car, absolutely no apologies necessary. I am very appreciative of your help. It's just sometimes difficult for me to understand the necessary legislation for CCA's.

 

So, I cannot find the interest bit under 1974 Act, because it was not there until the 2006 Act inserted it there under s77A, is that right?

 

Had a look at S6 of 2006 CCA. Is that not relating to fixed sum?

Odio los bancos con una venganza

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Car, absolutely no apologies necessary. I am very appreciative of your help. It's just sometimes difficult for me to understand the necessary legislation for CCA's.

 

So, I cannot find the interest bit under 1974 Act, because it was not there until the 2006 Act inserted it there under s77A, is that right?

 

Had a look at S6 of 2006 CCA. Is that not relating to fixed sum?

 

Yes, but it's the principle rather than the substance of it that I was referring to.

 

Being in default of providing statements, a prescribed requirement of the 2006 Act, means no interest can be applied - or, rather, enforced - against the debtor during the period of that default.

 

As the 1974 Act is silent on this issue, (although, some of it points to it - s.77(4) and s.78(6) - but it isn't stated explicitly) there is an argument Parliaments intentions in enacting s.6 CCA 2006 could be applied (there are rules surrounding Statutory Interpretation you could use to your advantage) to a default under the CCA 1974.

 

Anyway, I digress trying to explain my point in a round about way.

 

Regardless of that 2006 Act, they can't enforce the principle debt, the interest or the default charges under the CCA 1974 without an agreement - which is probably the more sound stance to take in your case. The issue will be, though, that the Act doesn't make it clear what does happen when/if they do provide an agreement - which is where my thinking was coming from here.

 

The simple truth is, they can't enforce anything without the agreement, at this point in time.

 

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Thanks car- very confusing these Acts.

 

I was concerned that, if an agreement suddenly turned up, whether they could encforce the interest from the 12 days default.

 

Probably best just to wait and see what turns up and fight it then. :)

 

BTW where would I find the LBA to push them a little harder?

Odio los bancos con una venganza

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They can enforce the whole agreement, despite being in default, once they find it - they just can't enforce while the agreement is "lost".

 

IMO, they would have produced it by now if they had it - the longer it is "lost", the less chance it has of turning up.

 

You won't find a template LBA for CCA claims on this site - each letter has and should be different. Before getting to the LBA stage, you should have already written to them advising them of your disputes with reasons and legal argument to support them. The LBA serves as a pre-action protocol under civil procedure rules, outlining that your correspondance hasn't been answered/has been replied to but without resolving your issues, outlining the legal basis for your dispute and giving a final time period for resolution to your satisfaction, after which legal proceedings will be brought on the basis of previous letters and the contents of the LBA.

 

If you want to have a go at writing it, you can post it up and get feedback before it goes off?

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Still no CCA from Citi. Had a couple of letters from DCA but wrote back telling them I am waiting for CCA and account is in default. Had no further communication at all. This morning a guy who purported to be from Citi called round to the house.

 

I was out and my wife told them I wasn't in. He asked her name and she told him to go away.

 

Now... I thought they could not just turn up like that, I understood they had to send you a letter first?

 

What are my options now?

 

Thanks

Odio los bancos con una venganza

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Still no CCA from Citi. Had a couple of letters from DCA but wrote back telling them I am waiting for CCA and account is in default. Had no further communication at all. This morning a guy who purported to be from Citi called round to the house.

 

I was out and my wife told them I wasn't in. He asked her name and she told him to go away.

 

Now... I thought they could not just turn up like that, I understood they had to send you a letter first?

 

What are my options now?

 

Thanks

 

Send them this;

 

I refer to your recent doorstep collection visit to my property dated XX/XX/XXXX.

 

You will see from your files that this account is “in dispute” and you have failed to reply to my s.77/s.78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 request dated XX/XX/XXXX.

 

I am writing to inform you that this dispute still stands and has not been resolved by your company.

 

As this account is in dispute and you were aware of this and are continuing to carry out collection activity, I now feel that you are in breach of your obligations under;

§
The Office of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines – s2.8;
o
“i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued”

o
“k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.”

§
Your Consumer Credit License

 

 

As such, I must ask you to take notice that you must cease all collection activity with immediate effect. You have failed to produce a properly executed credit agreement and as such I dispute the entire balance of the alleged debt is unenforceable. As there is no agreement between us, you also do not have permission to continue to contact me regarding this account, either by post or by personal contact, be that by telephone or visits to my property. In fact, OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you persist in sending "doorstep callers" to my home, you will be reported for harassment and be liable for damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless. Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction from the Court.

 

I also deem any further collection activity, of any nature that involves contacting me in relation to this account, an act of personal harassment, for the reasons outlined in this letter. Please ensure that your system is updated to reflect this, as I will bring any further letters or phone calls to the attention of the Police, to whom I will make a formal statement regarding your conduct given I have already warned you your behaviour causes me to feel harassed.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by calling me, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded and used as evidence in any further formal complaint.

 

If you wish to resolve my complaint, as has been suggested in your recent letters to me, you must supply the documentation previously requested to substantiate your claims against me under the alleged agreement. Failure to do so will result in my ignoring any further letters from you and the actions outlined herein being taken in complaint against you. I will not correspond further with you regarding this issue unless you can fully substantiate your claim as I have outlined.

 

Yours faithfully

 

If they come back again, after you've sent this, (special delivery - don't use recorded) contact the Police to report them for harassment in the form of continuing behaviour that you've told them makes you feel harassed and that you've formally warned them to stop doing it. Continuing in that vain is a criminal offence and the Police are duty bound to investigate - they will want to see your original request, your letter (above) and the proof that it was all sent/received.

 

You can complain to Trading Standards, the OFT and your Local MP, also.

 

Hopefully, they'll get the message and back off. Just be prepared for them to continue, so you aren't surprised if they turn back. You need to say you've sent a letter revoking license to be on your property, so they are trespassing and should leave immediately before you contact the Police. In theory at least, you have the right to use reasonable force to eject them, so don't let them "get a foot in the door", so to speak, after you have warned them. It would also be worth reminding the individual that they are liable, not their employer, for their trespass on your property.

 

Keep us up to date...

  • Haha 1

 

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Silly question, but do you have the money to pay the arrears up? TBTH, this is probably the only way you can stop them doing what they've said they will. Most of the processes used to manage your debt won't care that they don't have a CCA that is enforceable - they are likely to continue and Default/Terminate the agreement, regardless, unfortunately.

 

This is definately retaliation for the letter you sent them, so you've now got their attention at least.

 

This could also be harassment, remember, so keep the letter, the notice and the envelope it came in with postmark intact. They may be needed later.

 

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What or where is this legislation please?

 

Whilst your default continues, you are not entitled to enforce any part of this alleged agreement.

 

This includes, but is not limited to, the following:

  • You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  • You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.
  • You may not pass this account to any third party.
  • You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  • You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

Odio los bancos con una venganza

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Basically they are enforcing the agreement at a time they are not legally allowed to whilst they are in default:

 

CCA 1974

"(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)--

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence."

 

I defer to car for specifics though.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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What or where is this legislation please?

 

Whilst your default continues, you are not entitled to enforce any part of this alleged agreement.

 

This includes, but is not limited to, the following:

  • You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  • You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.
  • You may not pass this account to any third party.
  • You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  • You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

It's an interesting question. The answer is even more interesting, IMHO.

 

What you're asking is, what is the result of being "in default" of the request? Well, therein is the problem - the legal definition (shared by Enron, above) is that they can't enforce the agreement. This just means they can't ask the Court to enforce, or, rather, the Court can't enforce the agreement against you, while they are in default.

 

Most of this flows from the understanding as to the effect on the contract itself, when the creditor remains in default of the request. IMHO, being in default would make the contract (cross read "agreement") voidable at law - this means that the contract exists, but you can seek a remedy from the Court that means the contract is voided, thereby freeing all parties from it's obligations. The term "voidable" doesn't mean that the contract is "void", however - a void contract is no contract at all, but the difference between void and voidable is massive. (And probably a thread on its own!)

 

Anyway, IMHO, the terms of the agreement can't be established, so the right to Default/Terminate the agreement, or continue to share data under it, is an unlawful Act while being in default. (Voidable) It doesn't mean that they can't continue to do that, (void) but more that you have a cause of action to prevent them from doing it in the first place, if they continue to do so.

 

I did say it was interesting... The post you've referred to above is one interpretation of the Law. It's not necessarily my view, but I can see how it can be used. Just don't expect them to fall for it.;)

 

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But where is this legislation

 

There isn't any;

 

The post you've referred to above is one interpretation of the Law

 

You could refer him to the OFT Debt Collection guidance, which does say they shouldn't pursue a disputed debt - but is it guidance and not legislation.

 

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Hi star scream!

 

Here are a couple of links to the entire Consumer Credit Act 1974 + also the Data Protection Act 1998

 

Try searching through the above Statutes to find the exact references which U want to refer to.

...Just be mindful of ANY subsequent Ammendments that MAY be applicable to YOUR particular dispute with Citi...;)

 

Here are some further links which U MAY find useful...

Information Commissioners Office

OFT - Credit + Hire Agreements

OFT - Consumer Credit Act 2006

OFT - Debt Collection Guidance

OFT - Debt Collection Guidance (Compliance Review)

OFT - Debt Collection Guidance (Complaint Evidence Checklist)

OFT - Debt Collection Guidance (Complaint Form)

 

Oh...btw...Don't worry too unduly about your received DEFAULT NOTICE...;)

 

 

 

...:)

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Hi star scream!

 

Here are a couple of links to the entire Consumer Credit Act 1974 + also the Data Protection Act 1998

 

Try searching through the above Statutes to find the exact references which U want to refer to.

...Just be mindful of ANY subsequent Ammendments that MAY be applicable to YOUR particular dispute with Citi...;)

 

Here are some further links which U MAY find useful...

Information Commissioners Office

OFT - Credit + Hire Agreements

OFT - Consumer Credit Act 2006

OFT - Debt Collection Guidance

OFT - Debt Collection Guidance (Compliance Review)

OFT - Debt Collection Guidance (Complaint Evidence Checklist)

OFT - Debt Collection Guidance (Complaint Form)

 

 

Oh...btw...Don't worry too unduly about your received DEFAULT NOTICE...;)

 

 

Thanks MTM. But it must be written somewhere I suppose for people to put this in a letter. Why not worry about the default? Is there somethiong I should know?

...:)

..

Odio los bancos con una venganza

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...Why not worry about the default?
Think about it star scream

...What exactly are U trying to prove/disprove by actually asking for a TRUE COPY of your ORIGINAL Credit Agreement, as per the CCA 1974??

Then work out what effect the probable outcome would have on anything else?

...Based on what Citi have supplied U so far with...;)

U have THEM on the back foot, DON'T allow them to turn it around so that it is U that THINKS defensively.

 

 

...:)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Wrote a letter to TS & Info Commissioner none replued at all. Wrote to MP, he wrote back saying to contact both the above.

 

Chocolate & fireguard come to mind.

 

Labout can shove their votes up their ****

 

Citi issued a default notice and no=one gives a toss that they are not allowed to do it.

I'll just give up now.

Odio los bancos con una venganza

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Don't give up SS - although you aren't getting any "formal" help here, you will have a case when it comes to Court. Keep at 'em and don't let them grind you down. That's what they want, at the end of the day.

 

There's plenty of help around on CAG to get you through this. It would be worth reading some of the other success stories, to get you back to a positive mindset. It's not easy, but this site wouldn't exist if it was straightforward.

 

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