PLEASE HELP!Parking fine and bailiffs

[andyj5447]

Right here goes...

 

I have just recieved a phone call from my mother saying there is a letter through the door from a bailiff. I have been around and it seems a bailiff attended today to get money for Leeds City Council which i presume is for an unpaid parking ticket from about a year ago. Firstly this address is the one my van is registered to but I dont actually live there. Secondly I have had no previous correspondence, no letters or phone calls or anything. Now on the letter the amount owed is £306.50. I am not sure where this amount comes from but I am guessing its mostly bailiff charges as the parking fine will of been £90. I dont mind paying the original fine but what I dont want to be doing is paying the bailiffs loads of money when they should of sent a letter at least telling me I owe them money! Should they of sent it recorded delivery or anything? Is there anything I can do except bite the bullett and pay them? Please any help would be much appreciated!

[tiglet]

Not really sure, but someone with a little more knowledge will come along presently, i'm sure.

 

May i ask why the van is not registered to your correct address?

[andyj5447]

The van is registered to that address as I am self employed and work away a fair bit so use that address for all my business correspondence. I have had no letters from Drakes regarding this previously just this visit today out of the blue!

 

I have been reading the other threads in the forum and am now resigned to the fact I am going to have to pay this and the costs etc but can someone enlighten me on how much the bailiffs can charge? Is there a limit or can they just make it up? I am not sure where the £306.50 comes from since the original PCN was for £60!!

[John McKenna]

On the basis you've acknowledged the original ticket and possibly the charge certificate increasing the debt to £90, you may have difficulty making a Statutory Declaration but I'm sure someone will tell you how regardless.

 

The charges are as follows:

 

£95.00 PCN (inc. £5 debt registration) (VAT Exempt)

£11.20 1st letter fee (ex.VAT)

£29.74 1st Visit Fee (ex.VAT)

£90.00 Attendance to Remove Fee (ex.VAT)

£59.08 2nd Visit Fee (ex.VAT)

=======

£285.02

=======

£33.25 VAT (on fees only)

==============

£319.27 TOTAL

==============

 

** However, Leeds City Council only allow Drakes to charge £180 Ex VAT in fees so the warrant is capped at £306.50

 

 

The original letter Drakes send giving 7 days to make payment at £108.16 is sent by Royal Mail and comes in a standard envelope with no distinguishing features unlike the hand delivered letter your mother has opened. Does your mother open all your mail?

[andyj5447]

Thanks for your reply John. I actually spoke to bailiff this morning and she told me the cost were: £95 for fine, £50 admin and hen £150 for her visit.

 

My mum doesn't open any of my mail, I do. The letter from yesterday wasn't in a sealed envelope it was just pushed throught the letter box along with a leaflet. I have had no previous correspondence from Drakes whatsoever no letters or anything. This is the first I have heard from them. This was also the first time they have visited.

 

Anyway, I have been on to TEC and they have informed me they never recieved my appeal form ( I thought I had just been rejected) so I have filed a stat decision form and hopefully this will be the end of the matter.

 

Beleive me if they had sent me a letter saying your appeal was rejected you owe us £95 I would of paid it straight away rather than let it get to bailiffs coming around!!

 

EDIT: So Drakes cannot charge me anymore even if they visit again?

[odds]

Why does a Second visit cost twice as much as the First visit ? What extra expenses does the bailiff incur by having to make the same journey twice ?

 

Pete.

[andyj5447]

I think its because the visit is called an Attendance To Remove goods visit or something along those lines... The bailiffs bypassed the letter and first visit with me and came straight to the ATR by the looks of it....

[The Watcher]

My mum doesn't open any of my mail, I do. The letter from yesterday wasn't in a sealed envelope it was just pushed throught the letter box along with a leaflet.

 

This is illegal. They should ALWAYS put the letter in a sealed envelope.

Challenge them about this.

[andyj5447]

This is illegal. They should ALWAYS put the letter in a sealed envelope.

Challenge them about this.

 

Hi and thanks for your reply! Is there some sort of specefic legislation I can quote when challenging them on this?

 

Also, is there somewhere to find out if the bailiff is certified?

[The Watcher]

Hi and thanks for your reply! Is there some sort of specefic legislation I can quote when challenging them on this?

 

Also, is there somewhere to find out if the bailiff is certified?

 

Yep - I'll see if I can find it for you.

 

You contact HMCS to enquire whether the bailiff is certificated - but tomtubby (on here) has a database, but it may not be up to date.

 

The number is 0207 210 0516

[andyj5447]

Thanks very much-I have PMd tomtubby hopefully he will be able to help.

 

I have filed the stat dec with the TEC so hopefully they will of notified the LA and the bailiffs will be called off for now. Do you know what happens now?

 

Sorry for all the questions it all is very overwhelming when you have bailiffs demanding hundreds of pounds from you!

[The Watcher]

This should put the debt "on hold" until the dispute is sorted, and call off bailiff action for now.

[andyj5447]

Will the bailiffs be back for the money if the appeal fails or will it revert back to a stage where i can pay the original fine (£95)?

[The Watcher]

Will the bailiffs be back for the money if the appeal fails or will it revert back to a stage where i can pay the original fine (£95)?

 

They will be back for the money - once they get their teeth in ....

[andyj5447]

Lets hope my appeal is upheld then!

[John McKenna]

Thanks for your reply John. I actually spoke to bailiff this morning and she told me the cost were: £95 for fine, £50 admin and hen £150 for her visit.

 

The fees the lady bailiff quoted you are incorrect. She must be confused as those fees are the old HMCS fees for Court fines before 1st January.8)

 

 

So Drakes cannot charge me anymore even if they visit again?

Correct but if the appeal is unsuccessful, it won't stop them revisiting and either clamping your car or seizing your goods inside the house if they gain access.

[andyj5447]

Well if the appeal is unsuccesfull and I do owe the money legally all fair and square then I dont mind paying it.

 

What do you think about the letter just been pushed through the door not in a sealed envelope? Is that illegal as has been suggested?

[John McKenna]

The unsealed envelope doesn't have any bearing on the debt itself.

 

If you feel that strongly about it, I suggest you make a formal complaint to Drakes. If it gets to the right person, a reminder about the use of sealed envelopes might be included in the next monthly memo to bailiffs. Catch my drift?

[andyj5447]

So its not illegal then as previously suggested?

 

I notice your a bailiff yourself maybe your advice is not that helpful after all...

[tiglet]

Some people from DCA's and bailiffs do post on these forums in a genuine spirit of helpfullness - I haven't read many of John mckenna's posts and so could not possibly comment, but it is always wise on this (and, indeed, any other forum) to get lots of opinions and then make your mind up.

 

Those with more posts and with higher reputation points generally give better advice (and I do say generally).

[odds]

I think its because the visit is called an Attendance To Remove goods visit or something along those lines... The bailiffs bypassed the letter and first visit with me and came straight to the ATR by the looks of it....

 

That doesn't seem right at all if you look at the charges quoted.

 

£95.00 PCN (inc. £5 debt registration) (VAT Exempt)

£11.20 1st letter fee (ex.VAT)

£29.74 1st Visit Fee (ex.VAT)

£90.00 Attendance to Remove Fee (ex.VAT)

£59.08 2nd Visit Fee (ex.VAT

 

Forget the ATR, there is a 1st visit @ £29.74

Then a second vist @ £59.08

 

So what extra costs do the bailiffs incur by having to go back again ?

Do they pay double time to the employee ?

Do they go a different route and put it down to travelling costs ?

 

If I am out when my window cleaner comes for his money, he calls the next day. But it doesn't cost me double for cleaning my windows.

 

Pete.

[andyj5447]

I wish i knew

[tomtubby]

Sorry Andy I will check our database shortly and reply to your message, but like John I am confused why this bailiff was attempting to charge the fees for unpaid Magistrates Court Fines.

 

Clearly from your first post you did NOT receive ALL of the statutory notices for this PCN Remember, you need to receive ALL, not just the PCN.

 

Therefore I would have suggested an immediate OUT OF TIME late STATUTORY DECLARATION. Is this what you have sent? You must send BOTH the PE2 and PE3.

[andyj5447]

Hi tomtubby thanks for your help. I did file a out of time stat declaration yesterday so hopefully this will get the bailiff off my back for now!

[tomtubby]

Did you ensure that your FAXED the Out of Time? We always advise clients to do this AND send a hard copy in the post.

 

The Out of Time will hold things at bay for a long time.

 

The TEC will have sent an e-mail to the local authority within a few hours of receiving you fax and they in turn will send confirmation to the bailiff company.

 

The Civil Procedure Rules are very clear and state that ALL enforcement action must CEASE until such time as the matter has been DETERMINDED by the courts.

 

The local authority have 19 working days to reply and a further period of up to 14 days needs to pass for TEC to deal with the cases. Nothing further can happen until at least the middle of March.

 

This will give you plenty of time to write a letter to the bailiff co to request a complete breakdown of their fees and charges. One question, the enforcing a Warrant of Execution from the Traffic Enforcmenet Centre, the bailiff BY LAW must provide you with a copy of the warrant. Did he? If not request a copy and ask why one was not left.

 

I would also advise telephoneing TEC on Monday and ask them the date that the warrant was authorised. This is VERY important. Can you PM me details when you know and let me know also the date that the bailiff claims that he visited.