Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

bank breached...


venetian fire
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5994 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm new to the site so please forgive if i flout any maxims or appear unseemly.

 

I need some advice rather urgently so if you can be of any help please reply.

 

I have a big issue with a major bank at the moment...

 

Both me and my father have an account with them and a short while ago he called up to transfer money between 2 of his accounts, only the bank took it from my account (without telling him it was mine!) and left me stranded wit £0 balance. They informed him on the call that he had 3 accounts and that as there wasn't enough funds in the 1st one to take it from the 3rd.

 

Now my dad thinking something was fishy wanted to know the account details so he could investigate it at his local branch, therefore :mad:, advisor gave him my account balance (aargh!), account number and sort code - where is the common sense? Anyway my dad said (in english) do not take it from there (as he had no idea what this 3rd account was) ...and they did anyway (without any of my security info etc). Well when i called the bank to tell them about my missing money all became clear...then spoke to dad who was livid when he realised how much money i've blown out my account - not good.

 

I was left stranded for several days with no dosh and the bank intially no offered no explaination 4 the mess/ promsied to call back etc then never did b4 finally sending a letter to say the reason for transfer was cos dad's a trustee!

 

After inisisting no such arrangement was ever made, let alone signed and suggesting it was fabricated in order to cover their bottoms they eventually admitted their daft mistake and are offering £200 compensation.

 

Thing is i'm way too mad, throughout this whole debacle all i've had is imcompentence after incompentence nevermind the plain stupidness and disregard. The stress, inconvience, loss of earnings and all the calls I had to make for THEM to clear up THEIR mistake does not tally up what they are offering. I haven't replied to them yet in response to their "final offer" and wanted to see what people here thought thought before i did.

 

Have they breached both their contract and my data protection? As i'm not happy what's the alternative ? Is it worth it or are they too slippery?

 

Please help guys,

 

xxxxxxx

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm new to the site so please forgive if i flout any maxims or appear unseemly.

 

I need some advice rather urgently so if you can be of any help please reply.

 

I have a big issue with a major bank at the moment...

 

Both me and my father have an account with them and a short while ago he called up to transfer money between 2 of his accounts, only the bank took it from my account (without telling him it was mine!) and left me stranded wit £0 balance. They informed him on the call that he had 3 accounts and that as there wasn't enough funds in the 1st one to take it from the 3rd.

 

Now my dad thinking something was fishy wanted to know the account details so he could investigate it at his local branch, therefore :mad:, advisor gave him my account balance (aargh!), account number and sort code - where is the common sense? Anyway my dad said (in english) do not take it from there (as he had no idea what this 3rd account was) ...and they did anyway (without any of my security info etc). Well when i called the bank to tell them about my missing money all became clear...then spoke to dad who was livid when he realised how much money i've blown out my account - not good.

 

I was left stranded for several days with no dosh and the bank intially no offered no explaination 4 the mess/ promsied to call back etc then never did b4 finally sending a letter to say the reason for transfer was cos dad's a trustee!

 

After inisisting no such arrangement was ever made, let alone signed and suggesting it was fabricated in order to cover their bottoms they eventually admitted their daft mistake and are offering £200 compensation.

 

Thing is i'm way too mad, throughout this whole debacle all i've had is imcompentence after incompentence nevermind the plain stupidness and disregard. The stress, inconvience, loss of earnings and all the calls I had to make for THEM to clear up THEIR mistake does not tally up what they are offering. I haven't replied to them yet in response to their "final offer" and wanted to see what people here thought thought before i did.

 

Have they breached both their contract and my data protection? As i'm not happy what's the alternative ? Is it worth it or are they too slippery?

 

Please help guys,

 

xxxxxxx

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

I would think about a complaint to the FOS a link to their complaints procedure is here our complaints procedure and how to complain

 

And I would also report it to the Information Commisionaire Information Commissioner's Office - ICO

 

Hope this helps

 

saint

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you 4 response Saint.

 

What i really want to know is how serious is this in general terms, to me it feels v. serious because it's caused me so much problems but in your experience or anyone else's, will FOS also think so.

 

I've been reading lots on this site but there's so much! :) and i haven't seen many instances of this kind of breach and/or the outcome.

 

Should I go to the small claims court or is that too soon? On some threads i've seen sample letters threatening legal action to the bank but that's to do with SAR or unfair charges.

 

Does anyone have experience of going further with something like this and what I can expect:?:

 

xxxxxxxxxx

Link to post
Share on other sites

Venetian Fire, if you are adamant on pursuing this then contact agencies advised by saintly.

 

What I feel you want is, and I may stand corrected....... more money in terms of an apology!!

 

Why don't you highlight all your 'issues', highlight all your 'losses', send them in a letter to the bank and tell them what you feel is an acceptable amount and see what they reply :rolleyes: (send them an email, much quicker this time of year!)

 

I would think if they're offering £200, the 'MISTAKE' is quite a serious breach and maybe worth a try to get a bit more,

 

Merry Crimbo, DWD.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advice...but i still have more questions if you Doubleswhendo or Saintly or any other knowledgeable person should be so kind as to help:

 

1) If i'm not happy with the FOS outcome what next

2) I know this is a bit cheeky:wink: but got any good letter templates for this issue?

3) To those of you who have actually used FOS what should i expect, any tips? There are loads for fighting the charges etc. but can i apply them to this breach e.g. adding dealines/bundles/helpful legislation quotes etc ?

4) And (hardest of all) in your humble personal opinion - can i nail these guys for overall negligence? I'm so mad :mad: ...

 

...but i'm also realistic, and this has taken up enough of my time as it is so i need to weigh it all up

 

xxxxxxx

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Dear Freakyleaky,

 

Firstly i must apologise for the thread as i posted the almost same thing twice (i'm new and misguided)

 

Secondly, please let my assure you that i appreciate your input but are you having a laugh:o :

 

"I suggest you take what they have offered and put it down to experience!"

 

I am under the impression that one can only put something down to experience if one has relative control of the situation mentioned. I did not. Your quote also indirectly implies that somehow i was at fault. I wasn't.

 

How would you suggest i put it down to experience - i don't understand?

 

Even with "experience" I will be still be mad if the bank c***s up as badly in the future as it has now.

 

It's NOT ENOUGH! for the problems they have caused me, I DID NOT SIGN UP FOR THIS - they have been both careless and obnoxious in nauseatingly equal amounts, in fact i would rather go to FOS if it means they would have to pay more in "damages" overall even if i get nought.

 

Freakyleaky, do you not understand where i am coming from? I had no dosh for days, i was up s*** creek wit my dad, arrangements had to be cancelled, the ben & jerry's put back in the basket, blah blah blah ..... (please get the idea).

 

I am restless with rage.....i want more ....much more ...............

 

I am a reasonable being, and as such I await an alternative albeit more understanding response.

 

Also plesse see my other post which has more detail of the issue.

 

xxx

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 threads merged, it's easier if you keep all related issues on the one thread.

 

The information you have been given is quite correct, IMO.

 

Bearing in mind that FOS has so far awarded at the most £125 for reataliatory account closure, I would think it unlikely they will award you any more than what the bank is offering you, so "much, much more" is very, very unlikely to happen.

 

Yes, they breached the DPA, yes, they messed up, but if you want to go down the court route, you will have to be able to show how much they have cost you in real terms, and claim that instead of the compensation they are offering you.

 

As for damages, this isn't the States, we don't have punitive damages here, and the judicial system here is set to put you back in the position where you started from, not better off. I fear that if the bank is offering you £200 and you refuse, then take them to court without a clearly quantified monetary claim, a judge could well decide that you are being unreasonable, so you need to take that into the equation too.

 

What seems to you such a huge deal is nothing exceptional by the standards we have seen in nearly 2 years in this forum, I myself have received a perfect stranger's statements on more than one occasion, DCA contact neighbours and parents on a regular basis, so whilst it may have landed you in hot water with your dad, I am pretty sure the bank would get away with a "mea culpa" and a contrite face, they might get a rap on the knuckles from the ICO -which they'll just shrug off- if you were to report it to them, and that's about it. Compared to leaving thousands of their customers' details in black bags outside the branches, your case is small beer to them.

 

So please don't have a go at FreakyLeaky for giving you the most realistic advice you are likely to get, it might not be what you want to hear, but it is reasonable advice.

  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

are you having a laugh:o :

 

I can think of many other things that I would consider as "having a laugh" other than spending time trying to answer your question!

 

 

 

Your quote also indirectly implies that somehow i was at fault. I wasn't.

 

I did not imply it was your fault in any way!

 

How would you suggest i put it down to experience - i don't understand?

 

Use this experience as a warning of how Barclays can treat people and Change banks!

 

Even with "experience" I will be still be mad if the bank c***s up as badly in the future as it has now.

 

But surely with your newly acquired knowledge you will not continue to bank with with them?

 

It's NOT ENOUGH! for the problems they have caused me, I DID NOT SIGN UP FOR THIS - they have been both careless and obnoxious in nauseatingly equal amounts, in fact i would rather go to FOS if it means they would have to pay more in "damages" overall even if i get nought.

 

Freakyleaky, do you not understand where i am coming from? I had no dosh for days, i was up s*** creek wit my dad, arrangements had to be cancelled, the ben & jerry's put back in the basket, blah blah blah ..... (please get the idea).

 

Oh I get the idea alright! Do you think that due to the Banks behaviour you are the only person ever to get into difficulties? Have a read around the forums on this site and you will see some real cases of hardship caused by the actions of the Banks!

As for being in trouble with your Dad, why would he tell you off for spending your own money?

 

I am restless with rage.....i want more ....much more ...............

 

I am sure you do but the fact is the likelihood of you getting much more is virtually zero! The bank have made you an offer that in all probability the FOS and any court would view as more than fair under the circumstances!

 

I am a reasonable being, and as such I await an alternative albeit more understanding response.

 

The response I gave you was an "understanding" response in as much as I understand the position the banks put you in did not cause you any life altering, life threatening, career damaging, relationship wrecking or long term financial hardship!

It is not the response you want but the only one you will get from me!

 

 

 

 

 

xxx

 

Any advice given by myself or any other member of the site is given freely and with the best intentions in mind! No advice given is ever intended to upset or annoy. But as we all know you can't please all the people all of the time!

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thread closed at OP's request.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5994 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...