Any ideas on this guys??

One more thing also. currently writing the CPR. Was wondering do I send it to DG or HSBC? Can I make amendments to the CPR request and request other info too or is it limited? I have this template for one, but some info isn't that relevant, and some is which isn't in. Dear Sir/Madam, Account details and number: Thank you or your letter dated .............., in which you have indicated that there is an imminent court action should I not respond to your letter. In your letter you have given notice that ....................are preparing to initiate legal proceedings over the non-payment of the outstanding balance claimed to be due on the above account. Given that this matter is now subject to potential legal proceedings, you are obliged to provide (under the Civil Procedures Rules) information to ensure that all parties are on an equal footing, and also to ensure that the claim is dealt with expediently and fairly, avoiding an unnecessary burden to the court's resources. Under the Pre-action Practice Directions - Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules - I request that you supply copies of the following documents: 1) A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signature, is required. 2) All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to, the following. 1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account. 2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations 3. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held by me with .................................................. is required. 4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold. 5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable). 6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers. 7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied. 8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998. 9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed. 10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement. This information is required within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to deny me the opportunity to review my position in relation to your claim of alleged breach of agreement and any possible counter-claim. Please note that, as you have initiated this action, failure to respond to this letter will place this account in clear dispute and as such you may not: o demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you; o add any further interest or charges to the account; o pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party; o register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies; or o issue a default notice related to the account. Should you ignore any of the above I reserve the right for legal action for redress, and will show the court this letter. I will also report your actions to any authority that I see fit and will request that your suitability to hold a consumer credit licence be reviewed. I look forward to hearing from you in due course. Yours faithfully,

It says on the FOS form "have you recieved a final response letter, if so please send us the last letter they have sent you" I have had a "final response letter, but they have since ressponded to others. So do I send the final response letter, or the last letter, or both? It also says at the beginning, please state the name of the business you wish to complain about, if I want to complain about HSBC and their DCAs and DGs can I do that all on one form or not? any help would be great thanks.

Thanks for the advice and support. Have sent the letter to them already, although they said they would resume action today! Going to do the FOS thing next week after my exam, but the proceedure looks a little complicated, might need some advice there. I mean do I have to just send them everything? And copies only? And just a list of the complaints? I guess I should send off the CPR letter also which I have delayed until now. Would I send that to the DGs or to HSBC?

Hi there. Its been a few weeks or so and I thought I would give you a quick update on where I am. I basically wrote back a letter to HSBC trying to get them to answer my questions which I have posted here previously. when they reply, they either deliberately or not deliberately, avoid answering the question, or give an answer to the wrong question-which is a bit frustrating. So that has been going back and forth The DGs seem a very strange bunch as well. Basically they have been phoning me up and writing to me basically saying I have to pay the full amount or else. I wrote back saying that the account is in dispute so basically you cannot try and recover the monies at this point in time- this halted them for 2 weeks, but now they have continued and sent me a letter saying that after sept 10th they will resume recovery proceedings because HSBC have told them that they have nothing more to add and the dispute is over. So not sure what I should do at this point in time? I have in the past had quite a bit of experience liasing with lawyers and sols in my previous job and I have to say that this one seems to differ greatly. All the people I have spoken too seem extremely rude, not like a normal law firm, they are really off hand and have hung up on me twice when they have phoned me. This coupled with the fact that in their l;atest letterr to me and others and their conversations with me on the phone-they just seem to ask for money all the time-it seems to me like they could be more of a collections company than a proper law firm just by how they are on the phone and letters. Not sure if anyone else has had any experience with them, but they are very different from any other I have spoken to in a professional capacity in my life. Anyway, thought I would let you guys know where I am on this and of course all advice is seriously appreciated.

Hi there. I have several credit cards. I have had penalty charges added to them and PPI missold. I know how to proceed regarding the PPI. Regarding the charges. I have in the past managed to claim charges back. however, I have since then recieved more charges on these, and there are also some which I haven't yet claimed for-by that I mean I sent out LBA letters etc and they, capital one and egg said that they wouldn't refund my charges-so I guess next step would be to try and take them to court. However, when I sent SARS requests on these, none of them produced me with my credit agreement. So my question is, should I continue to claim back the charges and PPI? Which I think would have a good chance of being successful. Or Should I challenge them that they must produce me with my credit agreement trying to write off the whole debt? (if they can't) the latter is something that i have not really considered until recently so would like some advice on what is the best course of action tHanks

Thanks. Has taught me a good lesson to read through everything before applying

I was looking for acredit card to boost my credit rating and applied for a provident visa card. when I finished my application it said I had been approved in principle, and that an agent would contact me at my home to confrim. I didn't realise (stupidly) that agents would be calling at my home-not only regarding the application but also to collect weekly payments for the credit card!! This is something I really don't want happenning at all. so I was wondering if anyone knew whether I am bound to my application or whether I can cancel still? http://www.providentpersonalcredit.com/ Any help would be great

And why do you think it is unenforcable? You might be able to use these letters (parts of), especially the third one and just amend for your exact complaint? Account in Dispute Letters - Consumer Wiki

750/20000=%3.75 compensation of the total. I'm not sure of your story, but that seems lousy especially if they have admitted full responsibility.

The other points are that I don't think 2 weeks is enough time for you to get a response from the OFT, so I don't think that is going to be any good (although you can still complain to them, just don't expect a decision i 2 weeks!)

I wouldn't get annoyed because without an original copy of the contract, I doubt that they can do anything in the courts. Have you sent a CCA request to HSBC? I would send this along with a letter stating that the account is in dispute (templates in the forums). This should freeze all proceedings until you get all the documents you need.

Hmmm....so in essense, that would rule out the argument that the debt is unenforcable because of compliance with CCA/determination proceedures?

HEre have a bourbon you deserve it. I still don't understand how they can't just make up a letter which they can say they sent out to you in the prescribed format which complies with the determination? Do they generally keep these letters? To be honest it was such a long time ago I have no idea if they did this or not.

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:lol: It's a miracle !!!!! Sorry man, my post was soooo long, i'm not sure which parts are 100% correct And the last part about following process was that in reference to closing the account? (I assume those details would come out when I issue my CPR?)

Ok I have spent numerous hours reading up about laws and acts, I have a little bit of a headache now I do have a few questions that arose though and this is not doubting anyone's information, but for clarity on my own mind which is very cloudy at the minute with all the legal jargon. But I am 100% determined to fight this all the way so I want to get everything water tight and I am starting from a legal knwoledge base of about 0.5% so please bare with me Regarding compliance with the CCA thing. Please correct me where I have got it wrong/right. Banks do have to comply with it, except for the part about having to provide an original agreement? This is if, They have sent a letter to the OFT saying they want to be "part" of the determination? Does this have to be at the time of opening the account, or just in general? Do they have to have this letter? They also have to send you a letter with all the account info.? This doesn't have to be signed I believe? But they would have to provide this documentation when it goes to court? Now some confusing parts. The closing commentary to that case that you refer to says that they do have to provide the original agreement. IS this case specific or is it a "follow on" from the above and is now concrete in overdraft cases? Other cases I have read seem to state that even though, (and this was at the time when it was considered they don't have to provide an original agreement), that despite being exempt, that when it goes to court they would still need to supply a copy of the original agreement to prove that you and not someone else took it out and that you agree to it? If they can't what would be the consequence? I also wanted to know what the consequence is if the bank close your account without following proceedure? And how can I get hold of the proper proceedure? What is the consequence if the banks "sold" you an overdraft agreement on a misrepresentation basis? I.e they lied about certain parts of the contract? Sorry that's quite a long post.

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I don't think you need to send a CCA request if you have sent a CPR letter; they are obliged to send it in that.

And how can you prove they didn't sent a facilities letter? Couldn't they just make one up now?

Sorry guys, but what is a facilities letter? Is that the letter which complies with the determination?

Hi. Personally I don't think its impossible to claim back bank charges. Just not very easy. What is clear is that no one standard template can be used for all. I would work out and list the chares and the reasons why and your personal circumstances at the time and then either post it here for someone with more knowledge to informally advise; or read up yourself about the law and see if a claim can be made that is specific to your case. Good luck

Thanks for the response. I recieved ANOTHEr letter from DG sols today. It says "Dear... This letter confirms that, as requested, our clients are prepared to hold this account in abeyance while the matters raised have been looked into. This concession is granted soley in the light of your cuurent financial circumstances. You must contact us on...if your financial circumstances change. Upon expiry of the above period we will require your proposals for repayment of the debt" I don't know what abeyance means?

wow thanks for the reply. Are overdrafts definitely covered by the CCA? I read your earlier posts and it seems to be the case, but I posted up on legal seagulls today to get some more input, and the first reply was that overdrafts are not covered by CCA, which threw me a bit! I was also wondering if they are, then how in normal speak, can the debt not exist just because of there being no original agreement? My basic knowledge of contract law is that usually implied actions constitite a contract in the eyes of the law in most forms, I was just curious as to why this wasn't the case with CCA? I mean in most cases it pretty obvious or easy to prove that the money had been borrowed/the account has been used/certain terms and conditions have been applied and by continuing to use the account that implies you acknowledge them? (sorry that might be a very silly question but just wondering) Regarding the above post, regarding the latter case, the amount not disputed amounts to tens of pounds and I'm more than willing to pay that back and have offered to on many occasions in writing. My point about disputing partial amount was the legitimacy of the amount-because it = same amount of charges applied on the account which are unenforcable unless they provide the original contract. I would simultanously do a counter claim on the same basis, so it would be a two pronged approach gooing down that route.

Hi again. I was up all night thinking about this scenrio. I'd like to again thank everyone on here for their help and support. I think it is imperitive that I understand all the laws correctly, and I am reading as much as I can about this subject. any help would be always greatly appreciated. Regarding The CCA. I'm still confused by this in its legal form and I want to get it correct (see above). I was reading about another person with a similar case last night. From my reading my understanding now of the CCA application would be that I cannot dispute that the debt exists-BUT I can make a counter claim (not sure if that is correct legal speak? or how this works) for the charges to be offset against the balance and possible interest too. And this would stand up if they cannot provide me with a true signed copy of the original agreement which would be the reference point to which the charges refer to. I also noticed that under S127 (I think) of CCA, one Judge I think it was, stated that credit consumer agreements are unenforceable unless a true signed contract is provided. However, I'm not sure what the definition of unenforcable actually is? Unenforcable by the court or by the act? I believe that this doesn't mean that the debt is wiped off, I think you still owe the debt. Please assist with any of the above points in this or other posts of mine if you can. Thank you very much. At the present time I am thinking of using the above argument(s) as the base from which I will build from to my other arguments which I am yet to fully investigate in the eyes of the law.