Hi all forgive the vagueness on this but I have it third hand ===== friend to son to wife to me !!! My son tells us that he has lent money to a friend (I know don't go there!!!) because he found himself in difficulty registering for a course because his fees had not been paid. The friend was fined £50 (although borrowed £150 ?!?) Any advice welcome on who and how to recover the money that he was fined for no apparent reason than lateness of the money coming through.

Hi shahil.......... just a thought at this stage. In the absence of any substative allegation over the credit card usage, is there any possibility that you are being investigated over the fact you are on maternity leave? I would be aware of Sex Discrimination if this is a spurious allegation. Are you in an occupation that is substantially female? Are you aware of any previous employee / s that have suffered the same fate? Is it possible that the company use it as a means to extract employees in a manner that would suggest that they are not discriminating?

HI Gazza... I agree with what HB has said. As far as the SAR is concerned in this case you should send it to the Registered Data Controller. The DPA requires a named individual to be the controller. You can search for the company here.. http://www.ico.gov.uk/tools_and_resources/register_of_datacontrollers.aspx You have taken a lot of your time in this post to write about the email that has an acceptable "tone." Have you got this email or is the problem that they are not divulging it and only stating it is unacceptable? In line 2 you give a list of the behaviours your and your boss are being made to suffer but it is difficult to decipher the actual overt acts that make these allegations up as much of what you write is 'subjective' both on management's part and yours. As far as grievances are concerned there is nothing stopping a group of people putting in a joint grievance but if you do you need to focus in on the issues that affect the group. It may be that you have a better chance of getting management to listen than individually complaining, however it may be that management have an agenda that you don't know about as there seems to be some sort of agenda in the merging of teams. That suggests they are planning redundancies. Is that what you suspect? The most serious allegation you seem to be making is of racism. Is this the "tone" allegation over the email? You use the term victimisation, that may be the case but you need to examine the RRA 1976 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1976/cukpga_19760074_en_1 I am sure you will be aware of it as you like "knowing your rights." Note victimisation takes place because a complaint (grievance) or proceedings (ET) and other factors have also been made. So it could be a matter of timing but you have to have complained about it. Have you made an allegation against anyone? Have look at section 3A for the definition of harassment under the RRA. You should be wary of making allegations of collusion with no proof. You may have substantial grounds to believe it but if you allege it without proof you could be in trouble. Can you also tell us if you are male or female and what kind of industry we are talking about, it helps in building a picture.

SarEl has obviously quoted the law at //25 above.. I think the "Personal Use" seems a very important quote. The point SarEl is making is that it is unwise to do it but that if you do beware of the risks attached to it. Your friend has to be pretty desperate to resort to it especially if he announces it to everybody in advance. Think of the banter that goes on that you might wish NOT to come out !!!!!! It is a double edged sword.

"drained and disappointed" amen to that. Drained I know about. Disappointed too. Which is why I am trying to help in my small way. The tenacity some people show is fantastic but they need some sort of backing. Someone said to me once that in the current climate (15 odd years ago) we cannot give people everything they want..... what we do is manage disappointment. I fear that is why people are oppressed by bullying management tactics. It helps every now and again for them to get a bloodies nose.

Thank you SarEl for clarifying this. As you know it comes up a lot and I know, from personal experience, that the official notes can be very very wrong and in fact bordering on being a criminal offence for being amended after the event. It is extremely hard from a practical point of view to ensure you are being treated fairly by management. However, when faced with their own infractions as you say using "such tapes to great effect to force a settlement - after a dismissal" can be a powerful tool to obtain justice in the face of oppressive management.

Hang on in there PP. The best person is going to be the solicitor to advise you as you will be able to explain it all in a better manner face to face.

Hi You said you were going to see a solicitor today, did you? What advice did he give you?

Surely the Main Board justs needs to be clear from one section to the next. If two or three colours were used alternating does that restrict which colour you then use when you click on individual forums? Are you not over complicating it by using so many colours? The sub categories are easily readable, you just have to define them section by section IMO.

Why so many colours anyway? Perhaps alternating two or three colours forum by forum. Keep anything else black?

All I would say is that if you go into a formal situation and you have faced inaccurate note taking in the past, then it is not unreasonable to ask in these modern times to balance up the diverse positions between a company with mega resources and a 'challenged' individual that a recording as the preferred means of note taking should not be objected to. That is why I say that the OP's friend should be open and place it before everyone and explain as I have described. Covert recording is another thing, but then again if an informal meeting is hurriedly arranged and is relevant to what is happening, why not? I also think that if the DDA were applicable which still has not been clarified, then it is reasonable to ask as an adjustment to any policy, custom or practice to ask for a recording to be allowed. If the friend has a memory or mental deficiency it is at least arguable that the recording is allowed. Surely also it is better to have this recording so the pros and cons can be subject to legal argument and the judge rule what is fair and just having regard to the size, resources ect of both parties? It seems to me that a large company with almost unlimited resources and an individual who does not should be balanced up in regard to what was or was not said. It is simply fair play and reasonable.

If you write in and ask for it to go ahead in your absence, there is little likelihood of you getting any result worthy of your mitigation. It will be like a paper exercise all around. Their witnesses will not be challenged merely thanked for attending and giving evidence. They will all adjourn for tea and you will receive a letter telling you of the outcome that will have been decided the minute to write in to say you are not attending. The short answer is you have to attend to defend yourself and get your case together. Make it easy for them you lose. Make it difficult you may still lose round 1, you may lose round 2 (appeal) but you may retreive something if you fight it all the way to ET. It's your life you need to fight for it. Sorry to be harsh but that is how these things work.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Agree it strains my eyes.......... and I don't have an eye problem. Surely the administrators must be aware of accessibility issues for the visually impaired???????

Yes I know but this email went up high, so it can't really be ignored. Just a thought as I know you are keen to move on.

20% of your salary seems an awful lot. I agree with you, I wouldn't be happy either. How easy would ie be to get another job? I know this is straightened times but working like a slave 15 hours a day cannot be good for you. Why not just say no and see what he does?

Hi You indicated in topic name that you have been told of a 50% cut in monthly salary. £10,000 equates to £833pm and 15 hours a day 5 days a week = 75 pw. (without calculating the Sat / Sun hours.) 833 / 75 = £11.10 per hour. Sounds as if you should be looking elsewhere before you burn out. Somehow I think this is not the case, has the numbers changed at all? What percentage decrease does £10,000 equate to?

my mouse was still, didn't use it at all. It is a mathematical trick.

I am sure someone will be able to link you to the civil evidence rule at some point. However think of it not asa 'secret' recording but and aide memoir and means to note what has gon on. That electronic note then has be transcribed onto a document and produced in evidence as a true copy of the conversation. That would entail the witness to sign a statement of truth. If you ask a lawyer if they will use such evidence invariably they will say that they would use the best evidence available to them. A recording and transcription of actual words used is the best evidence as it is the actual words used and can be independently verified in court by listening to the recording if it is disputed.

If the claim is accepted by your insurer you will be allocated a solicitor from their list. This amy take some time to resolve, solicitors are not known for their speed of settling cases.

That was a brilliant email zararh. Well done. I don't think they would be construed as sacking you as you made your intention clear in the text, albeit that is accepted as not being a recognisable method of communicating such an action. It seems to me that all he has done is formalise it in to a manner that is acceptable. The condition he imposed would require you to take urgent action if he had in fact got it wrong. This was sent to director of the company? He urges you to go to the grievance procedure. How do you feel about that?

I agree with HB. Record it all with or without their permission. If it gets to another grievance then slap down the recorder in front of them and insist that this is his means of making notes. As there were significant errors in the first management notes it is best that there is an independent means to verify what was said. Perhaps that could be part of the grievance that the note taking was insufficiently accurate and actually ran contrary to what was actually said. Perhaps another aspect should be that he was bullied or coerced into the demotion because of the action of the manager and that he should never have been demoted but the manager should have been disciplined. It sounds like the senior manager has also failed to manage this properly. If I were you I would delve into the background of your friend ie back to schooling and the like to find out if there were any conditions that were reported officially when he was younger eg was he a "special needs" pupil? There may be some sort of diagnosis that would be sufficient to enable the DDA to come into play. I do have to say though that grieving about management over the box issue and the handling of it may well backfire on you. The reason I say this is because if you grieve about management procedures what you are saying is that there is lack of supervision. The management above your depot will never find against management on this because then that means that they too have failed to supervise their managers. They will stick together. Further the system you describe, to an outsider like me, sounds very insecure. Open boxes "common" in the warehouse! You friend admitting to opening the box ( I fully accept he did not take 'the spanner') but failing to secure it immediately after, could in an ordinary person's eyes, be construed as aiding the actual thief to carry out the theft. It may not mean much to you as it is common place in your working environment but that does not make it right. So your friend may be an easy target and that is wrong to bully and harass him for his niceness, but he did err and mangement may have a case for him to be disciplined. Whether that deserves demotion is debatable. What I would griev upon is the fact that he seems to have been made a target for common practices within the warehouse that are not right and that an urgent security review and protocol for opening boxes be implemented so everyone knows where they stand. Try an depersonalise the issue and place it on to practices that are wrong and which management should be looking at.

pictures please..... otherwise our imaginations run in to overdrive

No I don't think so.... just jesting with sidewinder!

spot sidewinder http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=man+in+kilt&aq=f&aqi=g3g-m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=44fc429e19c3a006 (hope this come out!!)