I received a notice of discontinuance from RBS regarding a credit card claim. I'm thinking of applying or costs through the N252 form. However, it is a while since I received the NoD. Can anyone tell me if there is a time limit on claims for costs after the claimant discontinues? BAE

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/letter-templates/131250-dca-creditor-harassment-telephone.html Hi, Lucky, Sending the above letter, (if you haven't already), is adviseable - it quotes the legal stuff and may get them off your back. Most importantly, DON'T speak to these people at all, no matter how hard it is - they are not worth your breath. Can you screen your calls? Only communicate by letter, and keep copies for future reference; they will show your behaviour has been reasonable. Good luck - and try not to worry, you will get all the help you need on this site. BAE

Thanks, Pompeyfaith, Saintly. Any questions about the court hearings etc, Pompey, feel free to ask. I've also got bucketloads of MBNA correspondence etc. which may be useful to you. BAE

Hi, all, just signing in to finish off this thread and tell what has transpired in the past few months. Firstly, I can now reveal that the cc company I've been suing is . . .MBNA, (of course!). Here's what happened: 1. Both default judgements I received were set aside as a matter of routine as they were both due to court errors, (judge's words!!!!). 2. At the second set aside hearing the judge also asked that the two sides meet up to discuss matters and see if we could settle. She also made a barbed remark about me making several claims against the same company - cheek! 3. Anyway, we met up, informally, and the man from MBNA was very polite, and had brought an assistant to explain stuff about how statements are made, when account numbers changed, etc. We chatted and came to an agreement wherby they would refund me all the charges they had not already refunded. Case closed. Success. Postscript: One thing that really stood out in all of this is actually very good news for anyone claiming from MBNA: MBNA rep told the judge that 'MBNA' will repay all and any charges they can find on your account. That is their policy. Period. (So why not do it in the first place, you may wonder!). Anyway, that's it, done and dusted. Thanks to all who have helped along the way, epecially Saintly 1, and there's too many more to mention. Maybe, Saintly, the thread can be put in the successes threads of MBNA? Cheers, BAE

Hi, Raspberryberet, Can u give some more details about why they refused your application? And has your doctor declared you unfit for work? Which medical professionals have you been referred to so far? BAE

Hi, Tallulah, The costs are unbelievably high to be awarded on small claims track. Josie 8 I think Talullah mentioned that the case was allocated to the fast track, (strangely), so the costs issue doesn't apply, Josie. Tallulah - I agree with Funky Fox that you must contact the court to clarify matters, the judge may have been an idiot but the court staff will be more helpful. Now, what is the worst case scenario? You have to pay around £5500 to these disgraceful people, right? Before you get too stressed, remember that the court will not award any ridiculous payment schedule against you. Obviously, you cannot pay the money in one go so tell the court as soon as possible. You need to sort out what you can pay off, each month, from this 'debt'. If you can pay £20, £30 or £50, tell the court. Prove it with income and expenditure forms. As long as you keep to the schedule that the court sets (and it will be fair), they can't do a thing. Okay, you'll have a CCJ against your name but in the grand scheme of things, that isn't the end of the world, right??? Meanwhile, you're paying for the important things like mortgage and cat food. Keep a roof over your head and food in your belly and you'll do allright. Keep your spirits up, Tallulah! Best wishes from a fellow cat lover - love the picture by the way - (I have only 5, though!!!). Blossomandebony

Hi, The simple aswer is yes, as long as you don't ask for any charges that have already refunded. They will pay up. BAE

Hi, Return To Sender, A debt is 'in dispute' from the moment they receive your letter explaining why you dispute it. However, the DCA will argue that it is no longer in dispute once the company involved have done their so called 'investigation' your complaint. However, that is by the by, unfortunately. The reality is that District Judges will only refer to OFT guidelines when they want to, and are not legally bound to follow them anyway. Going from what I have seen in small claims court recently, most DJs want to dissuade ordinary claimants from any sort of action, whether it has merits or not. BAE

Hi, Maggie, You have to laugh at the names these DCAs give themselves - Intrum justitia is one of the most ridiculous and one I have also been contacted by in the past. Most likely, they will pass the account back to tesco once you have told them that the account is in dispute, there is no valid cca etc. Then Tesco will pass it on to another DCA and the cycle of threatening and totally toothless letters will begin again. You have done the right thing by not talking to them on the phone, and this particular DCA will soon realise they will get no joy from you. Remember, the DCAs work on commission and are only interested in you so long as they think they can get money from you. In short, write them a curt letter stating your stance, similar to the one you sent Tesco - and make sure you state that: the account is in dispute. you do not acknowledge any debt to Tesco. They have no valid, enforceable CCA. . . . and stop worrying!!!! BAE

Hi, Maggie, This is a standard response, designed to make you call them and agree to a payment plan you can't afford. Whatever you do, don't call them. I would simply send a letter to reiterate your stance. Alternatively, leave things to take their own course. There is always the possibility they may follow through and actually take this to the court stage - and if so, they are even more stupid than we first imagined. Don't forget, they have an agreement without the prescribed terms, therefore totally unenforceable by any judge due to House of Lords precedent. What's more, they've tried to convince you otherwise in the most underhanded way, by sending a new set of terms and conditions, which are totally inapplicable and cannot be linked to this account!! Beyond belief!! BAE

Hi, Maggie, Glad you are doing better health - wise and standing up to these vultures! I know what you mean about dreading the postman, I used to be the same, but DON'T lose sleep over this matter - you will win this one! BAE

Hi, Hope somebody has ideas about a problem I've been dwelling on for a while. Basically, having examined various statements of account, I have a gut feeling that I'm being charged too much on a second mortgage. The mortgage is related to the LIBOR, i.e. XX% above the LIBOR. When I've checked the LIBOR for the past two years, it appears that the rate I'm being charged is wrong! Trouble is, how can I prove this? Everyone knows the facts and figures on mortgage statements can be confusing and I may be wrong! I just want to know for sure that I am not being ripped off. So, does anyone have experience of challenging a mortgage companies' figures and winning? Are there ways I check their figures more relaibly myself? Are there specialist accountants that deal with this sort of thing? Any thoughts welcome. BAE

Most companies will have a condition attached to their accounts that allows them to 'offset' any charges they owe you, against what you owe them, unfortunately. I've been in the same situation on many occasions. Usually I've managed to get a cheque, e.g. Barclays wanted to offset charges of £3000 against my overdraft, I refused this and they did send me a cheque, no fuss. The Co op, on the other hand, were incredibly awkward about it. They refunded charges of £900 straight to my credit card account and refused point blank to send me a cheque. I took this to court where the judge seemed to accept their argument of offset at the initial hearing. I reckoned the Co op would fold when it came to the final hearing, and pursued the claim. Lo and behold, they turned up for the final hearing with a £500 a day barrister fully expecting judgment in their favour. As their solicitor costs amounted to £3000 + by this time we came to an agrement to settle as 'case dismissed, no costs awarded to either side,' What I'm saying, basically, is to go with what Sillygirl says and write a strongly worded letter to ask for a cheque. Depending on the company and who you're dealing with, this may work. But if the cheque doesn't materialise, and they are adamant about it, I would accept the payments into your accounts and avoid going down the court route. BAE

It's not unusual for banks to ignore court claims or lose them in the midsts of their massive and incompetent network of departments, hence a lot of claims go through to the default judgement stage. Usually, though, the court you put the claim in with would realise from the POC that this was a claim for bank charges and automatically stay it . . . it seems that whichever court you used have missed this fact. BAE

Hi, If this is a claim for bank charges it is unusual that it has not been automatically stayed. What will probably happen is that Abbey will apply for a hearing to Set Aside (suspend) the judgement because of the test case. You can wait till this happens or apply for a Warrant of Execution to enforce the judgement through bailiffs. To apply for a WOE costs £55 I think and will probably be fruitless, but may give you a brief feeling of satisfaction!!! BAE

Hi, Set asides are routinely given where the defendant can show: 1. They have acted swiftly once they have realised the ccj was awarded. 2. They have show they have some chance of defending the claim. You seem to have 2 okay, but 1 could be more difficult to show. I think the biggest problem may be the fact that it seems you have admitted the debt by applying for a variation order, - it suggests that you didn't dispute the debt then, so the judge may ask why you now dispute it. This is not to say that you definitely won't achieve a set aside, it just puts a large spanner in the works. If you do decide to apply for a SA you will have to convince the judge that you were confused about the process of getting the debt set aside. If you fail in court at the SA hearing you will be liable for the other side's costs, which could amount to £600, (more likely to be around £300 - £400). And you have got the payments down to an affordable level so simply keeping up the payments may be the best option. . . BAE (if you do still want to go for a SA, can u post what exactly you put in the variation order)

Ta, Psycho Bob, BAE

a) A sum of damages (which the Court deems just) in compensation for anxiety, psychological distress, Hi, Noomill, Hope you have success in your claim, you've certainly done well in keeping an exact log of phone call, letters etc! As for the above quote, my first thought is that you would need something material to back up the claim for anxiety and psychological distress. Do you have a doctor's report, records of being given anti depressants /other medication after the harassment started, or an expert willing to make a report to back up your claim? (I don't mean for you to post personal details, by the way!) I'd say that this was the most difficult part of your claim to quantify and you will need some back up. BAE

Hi, DMD, If the interest that these companies charge would be classed as 'extortionate' in court, thus making any agreement unenforceable, has no one yet challenged them in the small claims court? It would appear that the debtor couldn't lose - after all, any judge must surely recognise an interest rate above 1000 % as extortionate? BAE

Good luck, Vine, Keep us updated. BAE Questioning - I think our posts crossed before, (I'm not very fast on the keyboard), didn't mean it to appear like I disagreed with you!

Well, when I sued Barclays and Barclaycard for unlawful charges on two different accounts, one bank and one credit card. The Judge then ordered a consolidation out of his own initiative. So, I would think a polite letter to the DJ, to suggest the consolidation, (once you've got the defences in), would be in order. Courts are overwhelmed with the amount of cases being brought and will probably be grateful for any opportunity to consolidate. BAE

Basically, this is how I think you could proceed: As there's two claims from the same company, the DJ may order them to be consolidated. If so, your defence of unlawful charges will defend both claims. Even if the two claims are not consolidated, (and you can ask for them to be), you should still defend on the basis of unlawful charges outweighing any debt you have. Why? Well I think going down the road of unenforceable CCA will not work in this case - I think the CCA is enforceable and you don't want to end up in court with a judge thinking you're just trying to dodge the debt (this is what CL will claim!!!). The defence of unlawful charges is rock solid and the fact that the High Court is considering their fairness will guarantee that the cases will be stayed, it may even make CL drop the claims altogether! In view of that I would simplify your defence to 2 or 3 points, with the overriding message being that they owe you more tham you owe them. and I would use pretty much the same argument for both defences. So, in view of that, here are some very simple ideas to get you started: Defence The claimant believes that there is no debt owing to the claimant as account charges that have been levied on the two accounts the claimant has been assigned outweigh and can be offset against any debt the claimant may owe. Account Charges On xxx date 2007 the defendant requested that the original creditor refund charges and interest applied to the bank account, number xxxxxxxxxxx, amounting to £xxxx These charges and interest amounted to £1 xxxxxx(Spreadsheet attached.) Therefore the defendant believes that the claimant has an outstanding debt to the defendant of £xxxxx. Hence, the claimant’s claim of £xxxxxxxx is below the figure that the claimant owes the defendant. The defendant has offered to negotiate on these points on many occasions, but the claimant has failed to respond. The High Court is, at the present, considering the fairness and lawfulness of such bank charges and has ruled that the Banks unauthorised borrowing charges cannot be termed a ‘service’, and are thus subject to the UTCCR 1999. Furthermore, the OFT has already, in April 2006, set limits on the charges that credit card providers can levy. There have been many charges levied to the two accounts mentioned in points1 -3. These charges are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the claimant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the claimant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the defendant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Claimant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. . The contractual provision that permits the Claimant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) and the common law. I aver that any default notice sent would have included these charges, therefore rendering any default notice invalid. Conclusion Accordingly I put the Claimant to strict proof that every charge and collection charge made to the accounts was valid and lawful. 2.If the claimant cannot provide this, by full disclosure of costs incurred by the original creditor for breaches of contract, I respectfully ask the court to strike out the claim forthwith. Now, this is the most important point that the whole defence relies on: your overall debt with them is around £1700, if I remember correctly? Then your spreadsheet(s) of charges for the account(s) MUST total more than the £1700!!! Once you add interest and CCI I am sure it will! Getting the spreadsheet right is your main aim here. The beauty is, the defence for both claims is basically the same! (If too long I suggest you keep points 1,2 and 3, the rest can be left. Oh yeah, and this strategy is only one person's opinion, don't forget . . . BAE

So you have absolute proof that there is no debt on this account, (the account that they specify in their Particulars of Claim) - even better. Your defence is ' the account was closed on 20th February 2007 with a zero balance.' Then you attach a copy of the statement which proves the closing balance was zero. (Simplistic, I know, but you get the gist). Obviously, CL have made a mess of the Particulars of Claim and they will most likely withdraw their claim once you get your defence in. It's then likely that they will re issue a claim with the correct account numbers / details, but by that time you will have a better idea of writing a defence, and you'll have access to a whole load of help on here. BAE

Hi, Vine, You say uour defence is too long? Is that because you're doing it via Moneyclaim, online? And what time does your defence have to be in? (Presume it's 4 o' clock.) BAE:-)

If you have proof that the o/d balance on your current account was £295 when they closed it, and the Particulars of Claim specify this account only, I would pay the £295 by recorded delivery, then base your defence on the simple fact that you have paid the debt. As far as I know, CL can't change the POC just because they've made an error. BAE