We should send that comment on a "Welcome to Your New Home" card to KM and listen for the tidal wave as he hits his pool

I see what you are saying here BUT when it comes to items like soap powder tablets/gel pouches - although it breaksdown per item/unit - often the packs have different units per wash = some liquid pouches you'd need two pouches per wash load - others you'd need only one pouch. Some very clever labelling going on within supermarkets I must say. I think the funniest item I seen to date was yesterday in BOOTS - OH wanted new blades for his electric razor/shaver - when I eventually found the prices for the replacement heads/blades things - it was cheaper to buy a whole new electric razor by £20 than to order the replacement parts I was looking for. Meant he'd a whole new razor updated version of same razor and a new guarantee etc.. It was absolutely pointless to buy the replacement parts when the razor was on a half price offer as a newer version of same thing.

How interesting that OTB's last post in here was 19th April 2008 YET thier last activity was 15th July 2008

are westcot abbey's own collection agency ??

To be honest - while claims are on hold awaiting the outcome of the OFT case etc.. the only thing I can think to do is get in touch with Financial Ombudsman Services and file a complaint with them as you have a dual aspect to this with the Charges and Overdraft reduction etc.. You could copy the list of Charges etc.. to FOS and fill the complaint form in here http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumer/complaints.htm#3 Making sure you tell them the whole problem displaying it isn't just about Bank Charges etc.. You don't say in your post whether the reduced overdraft was a consequence of the reclaim of charges or due to your change of circumstances etc.. - so you will need to express this within your complaint. FOS are very busy at the moment but they'll be able to help with this I am sure. Hopefully somebody else will come along with further advice.

The Bar Pro Bono Unit is a charity which helps to find pro bono (free) legal assistance from volunteer barristers. We can assist with: advice, representation and help at mediation cases in all legal areas cases where proceedings have not yet been started cases in all tribunals and courts in England and Wales Pro bono assistance is only available to those who cannot afford to pay and who cannot obtain public funding (Legal Aid). http://www.barprobono.org.uk/

This is a hard line from the Judge - my thoughts are the issues raised were not to do with whether or not the debt was your hubbies. The issue was related to Cabots "rights" to collect such a debt - hence the issues surrounding the CCA?

BB does the amended defence submission date come after the CCA 6 week period? The Order when it arrives in the post will make it clear about submission dates etc..

42man - I agree with the points you are making here - BUT my thoughts are we can come back to this element once we see what Cabots come up with in the CCA etc.. For now this Order from Judge firmly puts Cabot to coming up with the CCA documents - we can bring all these other elements into this later with the amendment. I have seen this questioning before where "did you spend this money?" question came up and was admitted. I will PM you and Berniebobs.

Berniebobs, As tough as this hearing seemed to your husband (who is probably still reeling from this) - once he settles down and thinks this back through he will see this was a positive result - and a result that you wanted to achieve!! Well Done to your hubby The positive side is your Hubby achieved an Order from the Judge to make Cabot come up with the CCA. Cabots have been given 6 weeks to come up with the CCA - THIS IS GOOD STUFF REALLY AND EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANTED??? There isn't anything you can do until that 6 weeks has passed and the CCA is handed to you by Cabots. Then you can decipher your next move and amend accordingly when this time has past - I am sure the Order from Judge will carry the appropriate dates for submitting the amendments etc.. as you may need at that time. Don't worry over the skeleton - it doesn't matter for now (it was just a tool to help focus on your hubbies points in this hearing etc..) He did well to get Judge to Order Cabots to present the CCA - this was his overall aim and he achieved this today. What happened was good despite your hubby wanting to hide under the court table he held "his corner" well enough to get what he wanted. Hubby was perfectly right not to speak to Cabots "Hodsons Rep" prior to hearing - they'd simply have tried scared him over costs etc.. I know some of these Judges can be scary - but I am sure it's as scary for the other side too - especially when they know they trying to fight these cases without papers etc.. = they know they on shakey ground often? I don't see any negative in this mornings results - your hubby got the Order for the CCA which firmly place ball in Cabots corner to come up with results. The Onus is on Cabots now. Go home and pour Hubby a big drink and tell him well done for today that was a good result - all you can do is wait and see what Cabots come up with.

I was looking for cosmetics stuff in tesco's yesterday I wanted moisteriser etc.. they'd got loads of Olay products on a 2 for £6 deal - but they'd been clever and separated these offer lines an a shelf well higher than where the ordinary priced products were. I had to laugh when the products I bought were normal prices of £7.99 and £6.99 would be £14.98 and I got them both for £6.00 - just goes to show we need to look higher and lower at these shelves to spot the deals.

Is it these parts out of my skeleton argument that you need here? - Go through my skeleton cause I am sure these sections are in there to help you. 11. It is respectfully submitted that these agreements are improperly executed because they do are not in the prescribed format set out in under The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983. Each agreement was made before section 15 of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 came into force. Therefore, by way of schedule 3, s11 of the consumer credit act 2006, those sections otherwise repealed by the Consumer Credit Act 2006 section 15 remain in force. 12. Consequently, the court is precluded from issuing an enforcement order by way of s. 127 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, since these documents do not contain all the prescribed terms defined in the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, these being defined by Reg 6(1) as being specified in Sch 6 to the Agreements Regulations for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and s127(3). (The omitted terms including Credit Limit, Rate of interest, and Payment terms under the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 schedule 6.

I have just PM'd you.

"Alongside these actual legislative requirements, there has been a growth in the use of ill advised consumer websites where disgruntled or mischievous debtors can exchange often inaccurate, but plausible, information on avoiding payment of debts. Most lenders and purchasers see this as merely a tactic to delay payment, but it adds to the increasingly difficult collection environment. We are already seeing a shift in repayment patterns from debtors clearing the full amount owed in one go, or over a short period, to more customers making arrangements over a longer time. This is a reflection on the lack of refinance opportunities in the current market." ILL ADVISED? that's why it's cost this company a small fortune !! It has never been about avoiding debts - it's about people doing the right thing!! Looks like Ken has a clear case of sour grapes to me

Hiya Tracy, So you've already established that the CCA is correct and as it should be - so no point looking further into that issue. You've made it clear there are charges - so you need to reply to court acknowledging the court claim as soon as you can - BUT (not sure whether to dispute whole thing until a point where you are 100% sure the account and contents are 100% your hubbies - perhaps someone would advise on that point) say on the court form you dispute the balance in the claim. This gives you an extra 14 days to file a defence - I am hoping someone will correct me if I am wrong there with that. But get your reply off to court as soon as you can. As pmhcfc has said your best route is to counterclaim the unlawful charges made to the account once you've confirmed they have right person = right claim - I am sure some would have occured prior to the claim being issued at court - so there is room to question the balance being sought in this claim at least. If you have your statements you can easily work these out and put them into the spread sheet here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-6-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html use them as your counterclaim against the balance owed. If you don't have copies of your statements you can request them under a CPR request for further information from the person who issued this claim (there will be a name and address of who was responsible for filing this claim on the papers - this request needs to be sent to that person) - I would be tempted to allow this person/company 7 days to respond to your request. Also copy the request to court using the claim reference number too so Judge see's you are actively seeking further information for your defence. try this = send it to person who issued claim your nice house your nice street Their 'orrible company person Their 'orrible company rotten street lousy town date xx/ xx/ xxxx Dear 'orrible person, REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CLAIM NUMBER XXXXXXXXX I have received the Court claim filed by your Company. To enable me to file a defence and possible counter-claim, I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below. Please provide the requested information by the xxth August, which gives you 7 working days to respond. All statements, list of charges, copy of default notice and proof of postage of that item, statement of account, all information held by original lender and yourselves regarding this account. (I hope others can add to this) If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought. Yours sincerely/faithfully ME XX (WRITE DON'T SIGN) send by recorded delivery. Hopefully you'll get more information to file a defence. The telephone calls - you can send the telephone harrassment letter from the template library - they might pay attention to it. You can report them to OFT for harrassment if they continue. I would advise you don't talk to them on phone - if you answer phone and it's them simply tell them to communicate in writing and hang up - don't get into conversations with them.

The funniest offer I saw in a supermarket was last weekend in ASDA. Laundry Soap liquid tablets/pouchy things. £2.98 for a pack of 10 tablets/pouchy things OR Two packs of 10 for £4.50 - supposedly saving £0.96 (= 20 washes) ? Further along the aisle on the same shelf was whopping big packs of the same items in packs of 30 priced at £4.00 = hilarious?? I noticed a few odd offers like this amongst the soap powders and tablets last week. The only draw back with these is these pouchy things are for full loads - so I keep a bottle liquid for when I do smaller wash loads where less detergent is needed. These supermarkets think we fell off a gooseberry bush?

I am just a little curious as to how many people in CAG have Mortgages, Secured Loans or Loans with GE Money. If anyone is too shy to post in this thread please PM me. I will explain why I am asking later.

I am just a little curious as to how many people in CAG have Mortgages, Secured Loans or Loans with GE Money. If anyone is too shy to post in this thread please PM me. I will explain why I am asking later.

Paul can you fight this? I've never seen this done before. I'd be tempted to go court and ask Judge what it's all about - surely you'd be allowed an explanation?

Paul Good Luck !!

There is a whole list of accounts and what they offer etc.. in this thread which may help you decide where to approach for bank accounts. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/13832-do-you-need-parachute.html

Sounds like Deano at Hodsons needs coffee making daft offers like that - the whole thing is a load of old tosh - £12 certainly was not recommended as the correct charge at all - it makes me wonder where Hodsons heads are these days. (answers on postcards me thinks!!)

BUSTAXX - WELL DONE and welcome to CAG

I really feel for your situation - sometimes things do seem impossible - I wish you well and hope you can work things out. You don't say whether you are on a repayment or interest only type mortgage - would swapping to an interest only mortgage help you to lessen outgoings? Sometime lenders will swap mortgages onto repayment only to help out. This is just a thought - BUT ... Have you approached you local Council or Housing associations? (social housing organisations within your area?) I'm thinking that many Councils are actually short of "family homes" to place people in etc.. and they do pay rents for private rented property etc.. (with this credit crunch it is going to get worse too) The Council might be looking for homes for famillies who have been made homeless etc.. - Councils have "Homelessness Officers" - who work with people/famillies who are on council housing lists etc. (or maybe try social services dept perhaps) they are often screaming out for good homes for people to live in. What I am thinking is making a few enquiries to these organisations might pay dividends and if you are successful you can then approach your lender to swap mortgage over onto a buy to let type of mortgage etc.. and repayments will be made regularly. If the property is then rented out to cover mortgage - if rent likely to be achieved is lower - then maybe a interest only type mortgage would be fine until the housing market improves. Property will remain yours to sell later on when market improves. (I'm thinking maybe you could negotiate with lender to cover the secured loan into this mortgage maybe) Often Councils and Social Housing Associations are actively looking for good priced homes within areas for housing people within - so maybe you could enquire as to whether they'd be interested in renting or buying your property. I am thinking that where I live the council are buying local homes for housing their tenants in etc.. so I am sure other Local Authorities are doing similar. (you can easily try see what rents are achieved in your area for similar properties by looking on Rightmove.co.uk and use your postcode to view what is going on around where you live - this way you'll be able to establish whether renting house out Seems odd the letting agency haven't found tenants. I'd be tempted to run a few adverts in local free newspapers, supermarket advert boards, shop windows etc.. the kind of places where people look etc.. Not sure whether any of this is food for thought and will help you.

Dave well done !!! Glad you got the result you wanted = Cabots actually owning up to their sheer in competence. I hope you are going to go after the CRA involved for their part in this too. These CRA's really need to be more diligent about their research and pasing details over to companies etc.. (there must have been massive diferences in your own Data and the Data belonging to the real owner of this debt etc..) These CRA's really need to alter the way they work cause their incompetence is really damaging a lot of people. Nice to see that you won this!!