kkpc0703
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PCN Box junction - Pls Help
kkpc0703 replied to kkpc0703's topic in Local Authority Parking and Traffic Offences
One thing I would say that when I entered into the box the cars ahead were moving with no blockage imminent on the exit. But the red taxi in the front chose to stop (when the space ahead of it was available) in order to allow pedestrians to cross. But then all along I thought that the camera operator will know all that and I can't be possibly be issued for such a brief stoppage anyway. -
PCN Box junction - Pls Help
kkpc0703 replied to kkpc0703's topic in Local Authority Parking and Traffic Offences
I have just managed to upload the video here The vehicle stops at 0:58 -
I have just received PCN for 'entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited'. PCN code is not given. This is the first of this kind for me and I have no idea what chance I have to make a successful appeal against this. But I know that the overall stoppage was no more than 10 seconds near the exit of the junction when a car ahead of me stopped despite some available space in its front.
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They have actually rejected my 'late representation' made after receiving their CC. They did not earlier consider it at all and replied with their letter that it was out of time. But I called them two days ago and drew their attention to the series of emails which were not dealt with appropriately and that these were all in time. I also drew their attention to the adjudication decision on the previous PCN. They have now cancelled CC but served NoR with the CD of footage. Is it worth raising any point in relation to the actual contravention in my submissions to the adjudication (now that I have seen the CD and the council are likely raise it to the adjudication) or to just stick to PI? I think I have duplicated the message after confusing few options on the Thread. My apologies.
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They have actually rejected my 'late representation' made after their CC. They did not earlier consider it at all and replied with their letter that it was out of time. But I called them two days ago and drew their attention to the series of emails which were not dealt with appropriately and that these were all in time. I also drew their attention to the adjudication decision on the previous PCN. They have now cancelled CC but served NoR with the CD of footage. Is it worth raising any point in relation to the actual contravention in my submissions to the adjudication (now that I have seen the CD and the council are likely raise it to the adjudication) or to just stick to PI?
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They have actually not rejected my request for footage. But they have now considered my full representation made after CC and served NoR now. Earlier they did not consider it and replied with a letter saying it was out of time. But I called them and drew their attention to the series of emails for footage request which were not dealt with appropriately and to adjudication decision for the PCN dated 15/03. They have not canceled the PCN but served NoR with the CD of the footage now to allow me to go to adjudication again. Is it worth raising the contravention in my submission to adjudication or just stick to PI? Because the council will now say they have made CD available albeit late. Remember the above account is based on 'as far as I can reasonably recall' after such a long time.
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I have now received NoR from the council to my 'late representation'. They have cancelled the CC. Now I have the option of discount payment or going to the adjudication. They have sent NoR following my call to the council a couple of days ago as I had a feeling it would not be straightforward after order of recovery. But it is clear that CC should not have been served instead I should have been allowed to go to adjudication albeit by considering my late representation. They have also sent a CD this time which shows my car staying there for around 5 minutes. Seeing the footage and after confirming this with my wife I can recall it was the day when my young child vomited in the back seat, I parked there, my wife got out with my little daughter and went across the road to buy a pack of towels. All this time my young child can be seen through the car windows out of his child seat as it was not possible to restrain him while he was still soiled. The footage ends before showing my wife getting back to the car. The question now is whether the contravention occurred. If I go to adjudication, can I now raise any point in relation to the contravention especially when it was not raised at the representation or just stick to PI.
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A request for footage is not a FULL representation. I raised this point to the adjudicator in the previous case and the response confirms this. The council has now gone from one extreme to the other and missed the central point. I needed to view the footage in order to be able to make a FULL representation and to ascertain if the contravention occurred. But let me also say that eventually when the footage was made available for adjudication key details on the PCN were found incorrect.
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I am quite confused now. I would like to believe that the representation may be a single letter or a series of letters. In this case I initiated my representation by asking for video footage a number of times and expected the council to make arrangements for its viewing and to suspend progress until such time. Instead I received CC. Equally it would have been premature on part of the council to send NoR without the footage. My appeal to the council was out of time but was the last step of the overall representation which had been initiated in time. The question is whether the council should or should not have considered my video request as a representation especially when they had decided to send charge certificate. Please note in exactly the same situation for the PCN dated 15/03 they considered it my representation and now adopting a different strategy.
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Is it worth writing to the Council again before order of recovery is issued requesting them to reconsider their decision especially referring them to the adjudicator's decision on the separate PCN dated 15/03/2014? Please note the difference between the two cases is that the council considered my video request for PCN of 15/03 as the formal representation and sent NoR. In this case of 16/03 the video requests (that were in time) were not considered as the representation and the Charge certificate was sent. I made the appeal after the issue of charge certificate which was then considered out of time. Please advise on the ground(s) for the TE9 also.
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Hello Everyone. Please advise me in relation to the PCN with following details: Date of alleged contravention: 16/03/2014 Date of PCN: 25/03/2014 Contravention: Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle (code 23L) in a loading place for goods vehicle only I made a number of requests to view video recording of the evidence. This was not made available. Instead a charge certificate was sent. I then made the representation without seeing the evidence and without ascertaining whether the contravention occurred or not on grounds of procedural impropriety. Please see the attached representation letter for further details of the case. Now I have received the letter from the council stating that my appeal is out of time. I don’t even have the option of going to the adjudication. In a similar situation for the same code, I was allowed to go into adjudication and my appeal was allowed. Please see details of the other PCN on this link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?423738-PCN-through-CCTV-camera-for-parking-in-a-loading-place-for-goods-vehicle-only-%28Code-23L%29-**PATAS-Appeal-Allowed** Any advice please.
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[ATTACH=CONFIG]51737[/ATTACH]Just received Adjudicator's reasons for the decision. It may help some. Thanks.
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Just coming back from PATAS. My appeal is allowed today. Thank you all for your support.
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They have not made any video available. I have not yet seen any video. I was told when the video is ready, I will get an email message. But I haven't received one. The link given on PCN only contains still images. I have been told there is a different link for videos but is not on PCN. You are right. Thank you for all the effort. I am going ahead with the appeal to adjudication.
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Just managed to scan the PCN. Actually I have attached the NoR too if that helps. I was not specific because I often stop the car on that location and could not be sure of what exactly happened on that day. Often this is just to drop my wife only to come back later to pick her up but sometimes I wait for her until she comes back. Durations varied from 2 mins to around 15 mins. I have to say all along I wrongly assumed 30 mins were allowed anyway.
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Thank you both for your useful advice. I am now inclined to go to adjudication partly because I am not sure exactly how long I stayed there and what happened. This is because I have traditionally parked at this spot for years without getting a ticket and would struggle to remember each instance. Other cars are regularly parked there. I also believed (albeit wrongly in the hindsight now) that cars were also allowed 30 mins as long as loading was taking place. I have nevertheless always stayed inside my car while my wife normally goes inside pharmacy to collect medicines while I wait until she comes back. Ignorance is no defense. Please advice me if the council can make the video available to the adjudication (which may or may not go into my favour) and if that can be considered as an evidence even though this is not yet shown to me.
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The only request in my communication to the council was as follows: 'A PCN dated 25/03/2014 has been served by post in relation to the alleged contravention (code 23L) dated 15/03/2014. I would like to view the video recordings of the alleged contravention. The evidence sent through the post containing the stills is not conclusive. Please send me the recordings or make arrangements for its viewings and until that time please suspend progress on the case.' Does the above wording in any way form my representation to the council? I followed up the request with calls made to the council and was advised that I will be notified once the video is ready via email or letter. While still awaiting such notification, I have now received 'notice of rejection of formal representation'. Please advise in light of the above wording to the council from my end.
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The sign says 'Goods vehicles loading only 30 mins No return within 2 hours'. I must have been in the bay. But I don't know for how long. I requested to see the video but it was not made available. I was just waiting for the video. But instead I got 'notice of rejection of formal representation'. But I have not yet made any representation. How can they reject my representation when I have not yet made one?
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Hello Everyone. I would request your advice on the following matter. I have received a subject PCN dated 25/03/2014 for the alleged contravention dated 15/03/2014. I requested to see the video evidence via email and by post to the council. I followed up the request over the phone. However, I have now received a 'notice of rejection of formal representation' dated 01/05/2014 with the choice to appeal to the Parking Adjudicator within 28 days. But I have not yet received any video and of course I did not even make any 'formal representation'. Is this not a procedural impropriety? Shall I now make an appeal to the Adjudicator? What shall be the full grounds? OR Shall I get back to the council to request the video and to allow the formal representation first? Note: Another PCN on the same code on same location for contravention dated 16/03/2014 was also sent. I am waiting to receive video for that too. The location is close to station with parking bays opposite pharmacy and where I have parked many times in past to allow my wife and children to get off and to pick them up. The car is never left unattended and I never got any tickets in past while the camera has been there. And now suddenly two tickets for two consecutive days were sent. Please advice me.
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Thanks. This is reassuring. Is there any procedural impropriety too? For example, they initially ignored my requests to furnish video evidence and sent surcharge notice of £165 only to revise it down to £55 later on. Was this not deliberate in the hope I would pay at least £55 without seeing the evidence.
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I stopped my car in front of school on the yellow zig zag line to allow two members of public to cross the road. In the mean time, a car coming from behind tried to overtake from my right hand side (possibly not knowing why my car was stopped). It was my natural response to look over my right shoulder before I could move away safely. But in these split seconds (and while looking right) my wife who had dropped my child to school had opened the passenger door on the left and was boarding the vehicle. I allowed her in and moved away safely. However, the overall stay still did not exceed 5 to 7 seconds in which all the above occurred. Please note I never stop even to pick up my wife from the front of the school and she knows it. But on that day, she thought I had stopped to pick her up without realising I had stopped to allow members of public to cross the road. When I got the ticket I was not sure why I received the ticket because in last 4 years of dropping my kids to school I never parked in front of school on yellow lines. The still picture only showed my wife opening the car door? I wanted to see the video evidence and emailed council. Instead I received surcharge notice which required me to pay £165 instead of original £55. I wrote to them again and requested for the video evidence. They then revised the amount to £55 but still did not send the evidence. I called back for the evidence and now finally I have received the video evidence which confirms all of the above. But it confirms one more thing. The video shows I went pass my wife by few yards and stopped only when members of public were crossing the road. It then further shows my wife rushing towards the car from behind on the left hand side (while I was looking right) in an attempt to open the door while I was about to leave. If my intention was to allow her to board I would stop exactly where she was in front of the school door. But this was not the case. Do I stand a chance in the appeal? What shall be the grounds? Is this a long stay? Is there a provision for stopping to allow passenger to board, although this was not my intention?
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Video is not available online. You have to make request so it becomes available. I did in 14 days but they did not upload anything online.
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They have rejected my representation and given me option to appeal to an adjudicator. They did not email me video evidence. Do I stand any chances in the appeal? I need help please.
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Yes I was there. But I wanted to see the video as I knew I only stopped for less than 2 minutes to pick up my dad. I was furious as to why someone sitting in a car would do that seeing what they saw. But now I suppose there is more than just observation time to support my appeal......I guess. Thanks guys.
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Thanks. I also applied to see the video, spoke to three different council staff. They all logged the request but no video link is emailed yet. I am nearly going out of 14 day period in which discount is applicable. Can this (not receiving the video evidence) also be part of my representation and appeal?
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