theshuffler
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The judge told my wee lad that he cant over rule craigavon court but told him to apply for setaside , also said whoever was helping him was experienced and should do the paperwork for him . Must of touched on something he liked the sound off
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Is it not still on photobucket? It opens in word from the post above scan002.rtf
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Been back to court , judge gave go ahead to apply for a setaside ,must be a good sign . Pointed out lack of signature , reference number date etc . have to apply next week , back up in fifth Jan
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scan002.rtf
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blew this up to A3 on copier then photographed it , hope its of some use PICT0009.jpg picture by shuffler_album - Photobucket
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Post i should be able to try a good scanner today , hopefully it will come up clear . ODC is there not something about signing an agreement on the business premises that waives your 7 day cooling period ? Think i have come across it somewhere during my many hours of reading.
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Top right hand side Duration of agreement (months) 24 Amount of monthly payment £153.69 Number of monthly payments 24 The first to be paid one month after the date of the agreement and on the same day every month that after that ( *payment dates) APR variable 48.98% Total charges for credit £1,188.55 Acceptance fee £ 75.00 Interest charge £1,113.56 Rate of interest per annum (variable by giving you 14 days notice in accordance with clause 1b of the terms and 44.25% Conditions Interest will be calculated at the rate of interest on the daily balance outstanding of the total amount of credit and the acceptance fee. It will be paid as part of your monthly payments. Any payment which is less than the monthly payment then due will be applied towards what is due in respect of the credit for the cash advance and the credit for insurances in the same proportion as the amount of credit for each bears to the total amount of credit. In calculating the APR no account has been takenof any variation which may occur in the rates of interest. Missing Payments Missing payments could have severe consequences and make obtaining credit more difficult. Important read this carefully to find out about your rights The consumer credit act 1974 lays down certain requirements for your protection which should of been complied with when this agreement was made . If they were not the creditor cannot enforce the agreement without a court order. The act also gives you a number of rights Listed are rights under the credit act Early settlement etc This is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. Sign it only If you want to be legally bound by its terms Signature of customer/ s First customer Second customer Date of signature/s
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Left hand side of agreement and title Is this any good done like this before i continue? This is a copy of the loan agreement Credit Agreement First Customer (you) Address Key financial information Total amount of credit £ 2,500 Amount of credit for insurance £0.000 Amount of credit for cash advance £2,500 Amount of credit insurances and settle loan £0.000 Amount of credit ( cash advance and settle loan £2,500 Other financial information Insurance 0 Homecare 24 0 1st customer lifecare 0 2nd customer lifecare 0 1st customer personal accident plan 0 2nd customer personal accident plan 0 Payment protection insurance 0 Total cash price £0.000 Key Information Our current charges each time you breach this agreement As follows If we have to telephone you £10.00 If we have to write to you £10.00 If any payment you make is returned unpaid £20.00 If we have to visit you £25.00 In addition we charge interest on any interest and any other charges previously debited to your account which have not been paid and reasonable costs we incur as as a result of your breech, including legal costs , court fees, and our costs incurred in tracing you if you change your address without telling us. You have no right to cancel this agreement under the consumer credit act 1974 , the timeshare act 1992 or the financial services ( distant marketing) regulations 2004.
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Just a thought , if penalty charges have been deemed to be unfair , should they appear in a credit agreement , ie letters £20.00 phonecall £10.00 home visit £25.00
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Should have a good scan tomorrow mate , if not i will sit and retype it as it appears.
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The agreement is may 08 nomillo but how much has the law changed since then ? , CCA request went last wed , no signature , I imagine they have his signature from the original , and would love them to photoshop it , seeing as we have a copy of the original here, now that would jut blow them out of the water.
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“In effect, the creditor--by failing to ensure that he obtained a document SIGNED by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms--must (in the light of the provisions in ss 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan moneys to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the moneys in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid;” It is my contention that this is the case here with the agreements with the claimant, I also note that the House of Lords did not reject this idea and reaffirmed much of Sir Andrew Morritt’s judgment including this part of the ruling. In addition, It is clear that Parliament considered the fact that where a creditor failed to comply with the requirements of ss 60 and 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 they would stand to lose any monies loaned and that penalty was correct. The Consumer Credit Act is a protective Act, implemented to give consumers a level of protection and set out minimum requirements for contracts between creditors and debtors, it does not say that where a credit fails to comply with the law and the debt becomes unenforceable they can cause damage to the debtor by defacing their credit file, no court has also held this to be the case either and I am sure Parliament would have stated in the Act if it was to be the case that the creditor had any such rights when in non compliance. 38. I refer to LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD in the House of Lords Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) paragraph 29 " The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order." 39. I would also like to refer to a written comment, which I feel is extremely relevant, from Francis Bennion the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a very well respected barrister who specializes in Consumer Law. On his own website he states; “As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97. Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody’s human rights were infringed.” - 167 Justice of the Peace (2003) 773
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Can find plenty on agreements but maybe a rarity for one to be signed in wrong place . Anyone know of any , or can anyone offer up any reasons why a judge would say its enforceable ? Would one of the site team know ? Dont know how to get in touch with them
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Googlin improperly signed agreements at the min , think this is best way , he also hasnt dated the agreement , i still cant see how an improperly signed agreement can be enforcable , also it contains no reference number
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cheerz mate will get him on to it , send off for agreement today let them think we dont have one , see if they think they can em conjure up a signature in the right place. Think if this case is against ccj the agreement is the only angle we have , welcome certainly wont bend over backwards to fulfill a sars request in the short timescale.
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Sorry guys was away at work , Need to get the wee lad to contact the court , he was a bit overwhelmed by it , and knows the judge give him 21 days to prepare a case , but not sure what the case is , either the ccj or charging order . Need this clarified before we do anything . Will the court send him papers to say what the case is about , or will they answer questions like that over the phone?
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yeah mate floor 7 , will link up with you at some stage and get it scanned thanx
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No its it bedford street mate .
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Thanx guys , just gettin that claim number etc organised , you still workin on something i can fax post? or has the plan changed ? gettin dizzy lol. just went to pick up paperwork for work , change of plans slim chamce i might make it back in time.
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K cheers , will have to look up numbers and organise someone to send tomorrow
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I think we can win this one , the biggest problem is the wording , im not great on the letter front but do tend to get my point across . What im afraid off is getting my son on the wrong side of the judge . I want to list all my / his objections as posted earlier in a proper and fitting manner for addressing a county court judge . Im due at work at 1 am have a ferry to catch early in the morning , so time not on my side.
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He never recieved a summons , I have already informed their solicitor and its in that letter i have posted up he got a letter stating that he would be taken to court at a later date but no date was specified . He still has the letter Civil Proceedings or something . the solicitor s are john mckee and son belfast
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Cheerz Cerb better
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Perhaps ammending it a bit on the part that debt contains charges that have been deemed unfair . Stating that any charges including the interest should be removed because they dont have a signature to state that he agreed to them . Thats bound to open a judges eyes .
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My camera isnt that good mate , nothin like that on it , the print is real tiny on the doc , be hard to improve it whatever you try. Post do you think if i can get a fax to Welcomes solicitors that its worth hinting to them that they dont have a signed agreement , maybe make them rethink their strategy . Maybe not worth informoing the court as this is an appeal against them applying for a charging order , I have already submitted most of those facts to their solicitor to inform him of the grounds for appealing.
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