If the CCAct relates, then going on the agreement we have (and I expect it's a stamdard form) it will not be valid. Just get a copy with your signature, the copies we have are not signed which is why we have asked for a signed copy. In your case, you are a sole trader, ie, a human being, NOT a company, so, you should be okay if the agreement is the same format as the copy left with my son last year. charlie

It would be intersting to know if the advertising order was placed by a limited company or by a sole trader. We too have a problem with them but the order was placed by my son's limited company and we are very puzzled. Problem is, he cannot afford to go to law for advice and having not been in biz long, has no accountant - nor the money to pay. Not trying to hi-jack here, but, YELL is unusual so maybe something good can come out of combining two problems. Let me go a little further here... my son had a large advert in the Yellow Pages book directory, terms of a franchise... he also had £3200 value of ad on the internet... Yell.com. He was told by the Yell salesman that the internet ad could be cancelled at any time - (of course the directory could not after they had gone to print). Interestingly, their debt collector is also an insolvency practitioner and as the original directory order was paid via credit, a CCAct 1974 agreement was used (for a Ltd Co - NO Prescribed Terms etc) but now, as he has ceased trading he has received a DN giving THREE days before winding up procedures may be started for the Ltd Co. What is concerning is that they may try to claim that he acted irresponsibly in confirming the debt (which he did not, by the way) and swing the debt to him personally. Of course, he would go bankrupt and that would be the end of a promising youngster. The franchise by the way was very, very, dicey and they should not have taken him on as their adverts ans pitch are very misleading and not entirely truthful. My son may be willing to bear witness that the Yell rep did state that internet ads could be cancelled. I am talking to one of their managers later and may be able to trick them into an admission... I will report anything worthwhile. In the meantime, if anyone has any opinion as to whether or not a request for a copy agreement, as they claim to be under the umrella of the CCAct 1974 would be a good idea... or/and whether or not some action re a DN giving 3 days to remedy from receipt is a good idea. I do not think there will be a Term/Notice as the DN states quite clearly... failure to act may result in further action ... at the bottom this states;... Intended Action a) We shall serve a Stat/Demand as stage 1 in insolvency proceedings b) We shall seek to recover damages for breach of agreement. Of course, one has to bear in mind here that whilst Yell grant credit (what they really mean is they will accept the ad/cost in 12 installments). They do not charge interest, but seem to reserve the right to do so. Thing is, would the CCAct rules apply just the same as with a normal personal bank loan? 1. Agreement requires to be enforceable with Prescribed Terms 2. Default Notices must give 14 days clear. Again, apologies here, hope we can both benefit.

My younger son bought a franchise a while ago which has gone belly up... he had to place substantial adverts in a well know asdvertsing directory and agreed to pay them at a given amount monthly. In adhering to the franchise agreement he had to place the ad three months before the anniversary, not due for payment until it commenced. Then, he discovered his franchise was not all it was cracked up to be and he had to resign the agreement leaving him broke.. indeed, more than broke. He has received a copy of a credit agreement.... and now a default, they are worded more or less just like our loan papers. Thing is, he is named as the customer, his business name is on the next line XXXXX LIMITED (limited liability company) of the credit agreement Insolvency practitioners have been on the phone asking about the company which has no money, so they will probably lose interest and now the Directory is threatenting "insolvency proceedings". Question is, against whom?.... him or the limited company? Need a bit of legal help here I think, if poss. Boy, it never rains but it pours Many thanks charlie*

http://www.bendyson.com/Easy-Solution-To-The-Financial-Crisis.pdf As the man said.... "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". http://www.bendyson.com./ NOW'S YOUR CHANCE.

Take a look at www.wikileak.com This is how to destroy - we, the caggers have the power. Also, suppose we ALL started threads on Twitter, FaceBook and the others calling for ALL banks to be nationalised.... Go here, READ AND JOIN http://www.bendyson.com/Easy-Solution-T ... Crisis.pdf It has to happen, it must happen. This global mess started in this country, could we not start the ball rolling to reverse that? charlie

Thank you guys, I will let my friend know. Next time he will be prepared as he now knows of CAG. charlie

Would a creditor issue a court summons and a ccj by default without having first issued a termination notice? This is for a friend who dropped himself in it 'cos he didn't know what to do at the time and just stuck his head in the sand... understandable I feel. thanks...

Thank you both, I have now attended to this matter.... will report back in the fullness of time. charlie

Not quite sure, better safe than sorry so I'm asking.... again Default Notice dated 26th Nov 2008 Remedy in 17 days from next day, 27th Termination Notice dated 17th Dec. If this is in order then I'll have to get a copy of the agreement up.. there are no Prescribed Terms on the actual signature page. Thank you ... once again.

Allied International You will receive yellow cards from them asking you to pay or phone.... DON'T do either. If you do call they will swear they have written to you... they DO NOT, only yellow cards in envelopes... they also pass them around to different guys who will phone... their latest ploy to get you to call is comuter call saying if you do not get this message, then press "X"... the very latest is a call simply saying, 'please press )'. Each time they change desks, they change the reference number

Can I now ask about this one... my older son, silly ass! xxxxx Credit Card DN dated 29th Dec 2008.... Arrears to pay £250 Remedy Date given - before 12th Jan 2009 Termination Date 17th Jan 2009... Arrears £360. Just wanting to be sure "Thankyou" seems so inadequate for such help. charlie

Thank you very much fellas.... especially the info on DN's. Much obliged.

Sorry guys, I thought I'd replied here.... Yes, Cerberus... I made a mistake, SORRY, the original you answered was not what I intended.... that is with a claims company... it was a one off free offer at the time so we took it - that was not quite a year ago almost before I found CAG. The one I replaced it with is just unbelievable, 24 hours Termination, let's have more of that, eh? Reading around tho I am becoming worried about the possible repercussions of using DN's... of being taken to court. This is something I have to avoid at all costs so I am wondering just what is the likelehood of this happening if we use the resscission letter? Thoughts appreciated - ANYONE IN TIME OR SPACE. This one also has PPI linked but, it does seem to me, that if a claim was made for the PPI and it worked (without court) then the amount that could be refunded would equate pretty evenly with the outstanding debt and as possession is 9/10ths of the law, there would be no gain. There is also a credit card, same bank, with around £2k. The DN is dated Friday, 16th Jan 09 Remedy Date - 30th Jan 09 Termination Letter Date 4th Feb 09 Seems to me there are 2 or 3 ways of tackling these as they are with the same bank and I did ask an opinion of a very knowledgeable colleague... I received an opinion too, what I did not do was to ask why! Could I presume to ask again for opinions and why? Any other ideas are welcome. Thank you

yes, they are still a mystery to me, just can't seem to ..... well, there are lots of us in the same boat I guess.... We have a xxxx card the DEFAULT NOTICE details are as follows.... DN dated 24 Nov 2008 Remedy date 8th Dec 2008 Termination Letter Date: 25th Nov 2008 (same amount) Another Termination 26th Jan 2009 for even more and Another Termination 27th Feb 2009 for more still. Their cock-ups really are confusing Appreciate expert comments. Will it ever end ? Charlie

274orbital Too bloody right they've been leaned on... I contribute to another claims discipline that is being developed and yes, the word has gone out to the judges. Last year I passed a comment on CAG about a retired lawyer I had met up with.... I was looking for info and upon learning what it was about (it was NOT the CCAct... it was other more basic law than statute law that does stand today if presented correctly (IF being the BIG word).. and his comment to me was that this will go out thru the judges grapevine to STOP it from getting thru. That's just what is happening now.... perhaps some of those who ridicule the notion that money is a fiction, that we are controlled from birth by a corporate system and all money that is loaned by banks is in fact a loan from the borrower to the bank who then lends it back pretending they have in fact loaned their own (or client's) money. Jeez, it even sez so on th Bank of England web site. Wakey, wakey, you disbelievers. Then there's the case of the fella who challenged the Wirrall Council claiming that his Council Tax was extortion, fraud or something and that he did not have to pay it...... it's all in the use of words, our own language. Guess what?.... he has been excused from paying Council Tax. There are people out there, loads of them researching ancient law, history, learning how to speak the language of the courts (legalese)... all to help us become FREEMEN on the Land. What's the old saying? .... "don't let the bu**ers get you down" END OF RANT, heartfelt though, some many people suffering, all to keep the monetary system alive.

Oh yes, Vint, I seemed to have got my copy letters mixed up, I found it stuck to another copy letter, it was just a smigeon of rasberry jam and in another file. Thanks for reminding me. I did more searching last night and came across the thread called.. ANATOMY OF A DEFAULT NOTICE.... It is very interesting and enlightening so I would suggest it as a 'must' for anyone intereted in Default Notices. Along with the advices and suggestions herein, for which I thank you all, I now feel quite comfortable with proceeding ... if anything untoward happens, bearing in mind the caution by our colleague FREETHEMICE, I will open this again. I have delibererately cocked up the dates and so-on in case there are spies. Charlie

Re the above post.... .... just checking.... by issuing a DN demanding payment in FULL, they automatically remove your right to carry on with the agreement and this is unlawful rescission as they are demanding future payments. I have posed this elsewhere, just trying to get comfortable before I risk opening old wounds - which we can well do without.... sitting here with nervous fingers over the key board ready to write that letter. Suddenly, after the Waksman Incident in Manchester and the judges being told by those who control them to use any excuses to find in favour of the bloodsuckers, nothing seems quite as clear cut as it first seemed... talk about smoke and mirrors, even the article in the Online Times yesterday schrieked "good news", but, it still gave new powers to the banks.... how can we as a group get thru to the 'others' that the banks cannot produce the original agreements because they have been sold into the investment markets. charlie

Hi Vint, thanks for the heads up... I did find the post after a while... phew! Getting back to this MBNA DN. It's dated XX June XX, states quite clearly that they want every penny by the given date (one day short tho allowing for 4 days postage) or, it states.... "On or after the date shown your account will be closed....." There is no mention of a T/letter and I never received one anyway. What I got then was DCA demand dated early XXX who only wrote that one letter. So, question is, would it be safe to send to play 5 card stud and send the diddlydicky letter as follows... re your ref Account xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-terminated agreement i note that you have not advised me, subsequent to my acceptance of your unlawful repudiation of the alleged agreement in 2008 as to the genuine amount of arrears that were outstanding at the time of termination, against which i may have a counterclaim for damages. (assume lost in post!!!) Appreciate any thoughts... ta. Can't find my copy of The Rubaiyat... must be in a box in the loft... I really must dig it out. Charlie

Being a bit slow on the uptake, I have only just realised that as the Default Notice was seriously at fault in itself, then MBNA have shot themselves in the foot even moreso by selling the debt to CapQuest - a month AFTER the date on the Default Notice? What then to do about CapQuest for I expect they will come back sooner or later. Later, much later could be bad news for my family so I need to do my best to kill it now. Thank you.

Dear Dog of the Gods.... Thank you for your comments... this is what I wanted. and Vint.... of course, The Rubaiyat... the book is tucked away in a drawer somewhere - I had forgotten - how could I, I read it oh 50 or 60 years ago if not before then. charlie

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it OMAR KHYAM.... Around 1916 my mother was given a beautiful leather bound copy of Omar Khyam's verses by a young man she was engaged to, his photo still lives inside a silver cigarette case of the period.... sadly he was killed in France by the Boche.... happily, as she was in fact an orphan (and like many others scared of ending up inthe work house), about 1922 she met my father in the Crewe Working Men's Institute... my father was a pianist of some renown (amateur county cricketer too) and was always able to drink until closing time for free - as long as he played the piano. This is how they met. TO BUSINESS..... We have an MBNA card. We stopped paying before I found CAG and challenged them under Contract Law. Of course they did not comply, being an American firm, they knew exactly what we were after as this is how it is done in the US (no CCAct to stand in the way). Anyway, no contract, just lots of letters, threats and bull***t. We arrived at an impasse. Cheeky s*ds even suggested we should mortgage our house or borrow off relatives.... how about that? We were well versed at keeping them at bay through the other method that many try to say it's American law... which is rubbish.... any excuse. Then we found CAG and chanced our arm with a £1 PO...... loads of waffle, no real copy of anything.... then came a Default Notice. Dated 99th aug it gave until 35th June TO PAY IN THE WHOLE DARNED LOT, some £10,000.... OKAY..... add 4 days to the statutory 14 for S class mail and they fail by a day. I think what's more interesting is that I THINK by demanding the lot they forewent it all, arrears as well. CAN ANYONE SAY IF THIS IS TRUE? Anyway, I didn't have much of a grasp of Defaults then (still don't) so I went on ranting about contracts, validation, invoices and so on and in one letter I included this para.... "Banks create money by tricking the borrower into signing what they often refer to as “your contract with us”, the loan agreement. It is not what it seems and is unsafe for several reasons. For the bank however it is a promissory note (a bill of exchange, an IOU) which enables the bank to create new money/credit out of thin air on the surety of the borrower which it then credits to the borrower who is encouraged to believe the bank has loaned him its own money".. quote ends. Banks do this by stamping the promissory note 'Pay to the Order of' and pay the £ value into an undisclosed transaction account as a bank liability (like any other cheque or cash paid into your own account where it is also a liability on the bank - in that you can withdraw it as you wish.... as the Bank of England says, "the banker can then give the borrower a cheque for that amount to pay away as he wishes". Since a long time now, the only way money is created is by someone borrowing it, a government, which underpins the loan on our surety (income tax - Gilts (IOU's) which themselves are bought and sold) and others by signing a surety, ie; the loan agreement. In both cases, new money is created.... old money is never loaned for it is already debt money, from earlier borrowings of one kind or another. This is broadly how the money supply increases What the bank then does with your IOU is another story - it sells them. The banker risks not a single penny of his own money nor anyone else's. Anyway, getting back to our debt... a few days later we received a letter from MBNA thanking us for our request (of months earlier) for a copy of the agreement and they enclosed a typed copy of the details.... no form. They also included a statement showing that the account had been zeroed.... like, £0 The next month, Jan we received a letter from DCA stating that they had purchased the debt from MBNA . No advice, no proof. I sent them a rant about the usual things, unresolved dispute, invalid default notice (incidentally, there was no termination letter to follow the Default Notice) and threatened them with hell fire and brimstone if they continued to pursue us. That was last July. Not a squeak since. What I would like to know, is it correct that by demanding the entire outstanding debt, of which 90% is demanded BEFORE IT IS DUE enough to lose them their rights to anything at-all. I am sure I've read something about this, but can't find it now. Would appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks for reading.. charlie

Annnouncing............... THE CAG MUTUAL ADMIRATION SOCIETY By invitation only....

SPARTHISIS I have re-read your post above... you are getting there slowly... it really does take time to find that everything you have learned in life is based upon lies. Don't blame your dad either, it happened to him too. As to getting out of debt, please study what I have given you very carefully, and you will come into the light - it may take a while because, as I have said, it contradicts everything you have learned. Try reading the Bills of Exchange Act 1882, Contract Law, what is a promissory note, an IOU, a cheque, a bank note, a piece of gold or silver... all these are equal because they can all be used as money to buy things and banks will exchange them for money - equal value, less a charge. Remember, the mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open. If I can help just a few people to come into the light, then the time I spend on my rants would be well spent. Tom Schauf preaches that if just 6 Americans were to give a leaflet to each of six people and they did the same, it would not be too long before the monetary system would be changed. As he sez, if this system did not exist, everyone in America would be worth around $250,000... everyone, and that has to apply here too - and Canada, Australia, New Zealand too.

SPARTHESUS. Basic accounts, pay 'em off, great idea.... don't forget, tha banks are only money changers.... they do not lend, they con you into lending them money by signing a promissory note (= agreement), they pay it in then lend you the equal amount by making a book entry (NEW MONEY) - THAT'S AN EXCHANGE NOT A LOAN. Then they sell your note to investors for FACE VALUE 'cos the investor wants the interest payable by you, the borrower. Hence the US sub-prime scams and resulting recent crisis... all planned years ago. We ain't seen the back of it either, it'll keep on rumbling for years, like my duodenal ulcer. According to the Federal Reserve Bank publications, the bank never loans other depositors' money to fund a bank loan to you. The bank records your promissory note (money) as a loan from you to the bank. The bank even records a bank liability showing that the bank owes you £10,000 of money (promissory note) as a loan from you to the bank. What they don't do is tell you is that your promissory note is in fact money... that you have loaned to them. This is their secret that they live in fear of being exposed to the wider audience. Don't just discount this saying, 'oh it's American, this is England'.... the whole of the US banking system from day one in the time of George 3rd was orchestrated from London. It's all in the history books. One way is to have HM Treasury (or the US Treasury) issue all the money free of interest that is needed to pay off the debts, gov debts too and tell the rest of the global monetary system to get lost. SOON, the rest of the world would follow. THEN, the world would settle down, there would be no need for income tax or most other taxes as HM Treasury would issue money as required according to the system operated by honest people that would fall into place to manage a society where usury would be banished other than enough to cover operating expenses. The current system has to continue as it is because there is NOT enough money to pay off debt.... there is now and always will be a shortfall and so forever people will fall into trouble, lose their home, commit suicide etc. This is how the bankers own everything.... you don't own your home, they just let you think you do, even if you've paid off your mortgage. I do not think there is a law, statute or otherwise in the UK to prevent this, there is in the US of A because Pres Woodrow Wilson signed it into law in 1913 when he signed the Federal Reserve Act. They manipulated everything so he would win the election, the price being to sign the Act... I believe Obama is one of them too.... remember, whilst McCain was short of money, there was n ever any mention of Obama running short - what price will he pay I wonder.... time will tell, maybe if we recognise it when it happens. Of course the politicians won't do this 'cos they are rewarded too well to keep the fiction going... and.... they run scared that what happened to John Kennedy in 1963 might happen to them also. It's not the high street banks, it's the international bankers who own/control the central banks. If every cagger would contribute a fiver, surely we could mount a class action and employ an "EXPERT WITNESS". I think they do this in America, not sure about here. An Expert Witness would be someone like an FCA who understands the whole system, understand double entry bookkeeping too and they know the right questions to ask. There has to be a way, the law does provide for it, it's getting the process in the right order, right words, right ways to ask questions, to present.... and and honest judge... if there are any.

And the last time I came across those bible thumpers was when they knocked on my front door in Hendon the heavens opened as I tipped a jug full of water over them the little bedroom window - we'd seen them coming! The information I allude to in my posts comes from many knowledgeable sources, including chartered accountants... here's another, google Mary Croft and read her book, it's in pdf and FREE... "How I Clobbered Every Bureaucratic Cash Confiscatory Agency Known To Man".... she came to Bristol late last year all the way from Canada and met a lot of people. Remember what 'HE' said when he got into Number 10?... "Education, education, education" Take a look in the Bank of England website.... find this... 'Quarterly Bulletin 2008, Q1 volume 48, No 1, Page 103, Left column, last para, line 4. It's an open secret in the Federal Reserve website too, Chicago Branch...but the best revelation of all, easy to understand is the report by Tom Schauf offered above. By the way, without people like those I mention above, most people on this forum would never have been born, so don't knock 'em.... they did something..... then there was Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, a Lancaster pilot who after the war spent the rest of his life opening homes for the disabled.... his wife was Sue Ryder who spent much of WW2 in occupied eastern europe with a little suitcase radio and a morse key, always in danger of ending up like Violette Szarbo (Carve Her Name With Pride) being tortured and shot by the Gestapo.... so YOU could live free.... then she went on to build a network of charity shops all over the country. Read her book; "Child of my Love" - it'll be in any Sue Ryder shop.... better than football or Come Dancing. What was it John Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask instead what you can do for your country". I can quote Winnie too if you like, equally potent and meaningful. Getting back to other debt cracking systems such as Nuke em talks of.... they do work, but not all the time, just as challenging the Consumer Credit Act works, BUT NOT ALL THE TIME. There is a difference, when these other system do work, then debt is actually cancelled out and credit restored, by law. Irrevocable decisions are made. Under the Consumer Credit Act, unless you get very lucky, debt becomes unenforceable, not cancelled. I have used both systems together, I have not been able to cancel any debt, yet, BUT, we never hear from them any more, that is not to say we won't, but, that's as far as we've got. It all depends on the courage of the debtor, this is why I wrote in the above post... "There can be no reward without risk" In our context, challenging the system is a risk, but, the rewards are high. Yes, this forum is doing a fantastic job, but, I'm sure the owners would agree that there are other solutions to many problems in life - it is the duty of the individual to look after his affairs as best he can and if that means taking more knowledge on board to consider, then that's got to be the way top go - the more knowledge you have about any given subject, the more confident and powerful the individual becomes. I hope some will find my posts of passing interest and not too inflammatory!